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MembersPage/VolvoS (2014-11-12 16:31:52)

Volvo S70 T5 Turbo

Motronic 4.4 Ecu 19T 21psi cca 340Le

Engine: B5244T LPT 9:0:1

2445 ccm

5 cyl

Na camst

Rs500 intercooler

S60R Fuel injectors 42lb

Walbro 255 Lph pump

TD04HL-19T Turbo

3" exhaust

Msd ignition(distributor)

New Project: 1998 Volvo S70 B5244T + vems V3

Engine: B5244T LPT 9:0:1

2445 ccm

5 cyl

Na camst

Rs500 intercooler

Siemens Deka 630

Walbro 255 Lph pump

TD05HL-06 20G hibrid

3" exhaust

Volvo T5 COP's Bosch 0221604001

Inline 5-cylinder, sequential ignition with camsync

Primary trigger: 60-2 w/ VR sensor.

Secondary trigger: Single tooth w/ Hall sensor.

The rising edge of the cam wheel hits the sensor after cylinder three fires and before cylinder one does.

Firing order is 1-2-4-5-3.

Ign. outputs will connect as follows (for 2+6 igbt configuration, + PNP transistor

Ignition outputs

cyl 1, EC36/34
cyl 2, EC36/35
cyl 4, EC36/33
cyl 5, EC36/36
cyl 3, EC36/24

Sensor:

TPS is standard Volvo S70 , 3 pin.

-Standart Vr sensor 2 pin

-Hall sensor 3 pin

-Bmw Mat sensor

-2 Bosch Lamda

-IAC 3-pin

Coil pin-out:S70 T5 Cop

Pin---Designation

1 Trigger

2 Not Used

3 Ground

4 +12v

ign TDC-delay (primary trigger settings) is too low !

ign-tdcdelay = 20 is wrong....

Correction hint: 144+20=164 crankdeg = 15*6 + 74

first trigger tooth should be 15
"TDC after the trigger": ign tdcdelay = 74 crankdeg
of course, rotate ignoutputs by 1 to match the desired spark position
- verify by strobe

Validation shows possible problem

sectrig HALL-dirac filter: preferrably disable it !
iac ignadv change should be lower (+2, -6 crankdeg or similar; even +1 -3 or crankdeg is more than enough is IAC air-valve is set up properly, +0 -0 should be good too)

With hall dirac filter the problem shows less times

Benchtest

We applied some changes to the config, because "TDC after trigger" = 20 crankdeg is not a good setting (see above ... Since we changed 144 crankdegrees, you might need to rotate the ignoutput sequence by 1 event, strobing will show it).

After that, we benchtested the config.

We benchtested the ~160 kPa and 3000 .. 7000 RPM range most extensively where your cylinder seems to misfire. The ignition and injection outputs fired properly.

Test config: http://www.vems.hu/files/VolvoS/tested-v3.3_u004521-A-2013.05.06-12.

http://data.hu/get/6564404/v3.3_u003132-2013.05.21-00.44.37.vemslog

http://data.hu/get/6564478/v3.3_u003132-A-2013.05.21-00.46.20korrekciofentgyujtas.vemscfg

Hi Marcell,

could you please take a look on my log file?

On WOT runs from 1st to 4th everything is fine, but in 5th gear @ 3000 rpm the engine misfires => lambda goes lean (this is a consequence of misfire: unburnt oxygen in the exhaust), stutters.

Ignition is not strong enough. Ign current (peak current, or average current, RPM and dwell) should be measured.
- maybe longer dwell (possibly in function of MAP, see dwell_map in ignition settings) can fix it (or burn the ignition coil).
- check individual-power (if it's just 1 cyl or multiple cylinders)

The other problem is the startup. Doesn't matter if the engine is hot or cold I have to crank the for a long time to start. What could be the problem?

it can be ... almost anything. If trigger is good (RPM shows up properly), than ... Either air, but more likely fuel or spark.
Needs experimenting and tuning (if you find values that result in improvement, save the log or config and take note of fuel pw).

Sziasztok

Kis segítségre lenne szükségem.

Hiba : kis alapjárat ingadozás 100rpm egyenletlen járás.. Lambda 1.00 ha dúsítom kb 0,85re egyenletes alapjárat minden tökéletes.

Teljesen általános jelenség 1.5msec injector pulsewidth alatt:

With low injector pulsewidth, especially ~1.6msec and under that, even with the ECU configured for perfectly consistent injector pulsewidth, the fuel injected by injectors vary a bit: between injectors, and also from cycle to cycle => hard to tune... With most injectors of that size, often impossible to get perfect idle at 1.0 lambda (factory engines idle with 1.9 msec injector pulsewidth or above - obviously with smaller injectors).
- in the old days people swapped injectors between cylinders, but with the individual injector trim, that's hardly necessary any longer (except maybe in extreme cases with very big difference, mostly for diagnostic reasons)
Start with lambdatarget=0.87, but tune VE for 0.84 so that EGO takes away some fuel (the good way is to tune slightly rich, so that EGO only takes away some fuel when all is good).
- check the injector order and play a bit with injector timing (the sweet spot makes idle a bit better at somewhat higher lambda)
- See injector trim / individual injector pulsewidths: add +100usec injector pulsewidth for each (additive term!), and see how much you can take away before stumbling (take notes for each)
  - After you find how much "margin" each injector has, you can set them reasonably (add less for injectors that allow less; add more to those that require more). If you're lucky, you can slowly increase lambdatarget up to 0.9 (or maybe even 0.95).
  - Some installers who need very high power, but want to pass emissions: use staging, or a smaller set of injectors for the time of emission tests.
  - But of course check "Validate" in VT, and the usual things...

Üzemanyag problémára gondolok .injektorok tesztelve egyenletes porlasztás, mennyiség megegyező mind az 5 hengerre .

Van e valami tippetek mi okozhatja a problémát?

Köszönöm

New project: TODO: move it to different page. Mixing different engines on same page is explicitely not supported, because very confusing => causes misunderstanding and costs extra time for developers

Volvo 2,5 RNC DUAL VVT

Engine started (with your help, related to primary trigger VR polarity)
sg is weird though: engine is sluggish
- note: This type of issue is often hard or impossible to see in logs and must be traced on site.
- verify firing order (especially ignition)
- verify exact TDC. Don't blindly believe any mark on the wheel. Remove a sparkplug and VERIFY the mark, really.

Reviewed vemscfg/vemslog clt ign adjust table was not reasonably filled, adjusted config available here:

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/VolvoS/Volvo25RNC/v3.3_u003132-A-2014.08.06-10.36.19_adjusted_settings.vemscfg

To allow further timing and trigger verification please provide a triggerlog of engine cranking 8-10 seconds without IGN and INJ fuse - DB

Received vemslog by email, supposedly after uploading [adjusted settings] linked above.

received log: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/VolvoS/Volvo25RNC/v3.3_u003132-2014.08.06-11.28.53.vemslog

Review:

Adjusted settings was not uploaded. Are you sure you are using an up to date VemsTune version ? To proceed in the right direction, issue:
- In VemsTune when having active internet connection, use "preferences -> update ini files from web"
- after that re-upload [adjusted settings] linked above
after that verify in VemsTune that "Tuning -> CLT/MAP Ign adjust table" is filled with all zero.
after that take another vemslog and report.

Sziasztok! Először is köszönöm az eddigi segítséget. Most ismét segítségre van szükségem. Nem indul be az autó. Felt��ltöttem egy trigger logot. Megk��szönném ha ránéznétek. Üdv, Kitti

http://data.hu/get/8188022/v3.3_u003132-2014-11-03-13.12.17.triggerlog

Dave says: triggerlog seems good to me, no trigger errors perfect sync.

good vr polarity on primary trigger, perhaps a bit high cranking advance 3-4 teeth BTDC = 18-24 degree
I would advise her to check engine timing with timing light

It's only a triggerlog, a vemslog would be needed to check the rest. Will review when uploaded. Eg. TPS and injector pulsewidth should be checked first. (they said RPM was good).

Solution was easy:

Injectors were disabled. (safe-mode ?)

Please review my config:

http://data.hu/get/8212368/v3.3_u003132-A-2014.11.11-13.39.52.vemscfg

http://data.hu/get/8212369/v3.3_u003132-2014.11.11-19.09.49.vemslog

Review report:

stay away of boosting the engine (or anything over part throttle) without having the basics setup
knock control is enabled with bogus settings causing over enriching, please load configlet "Disabled" to disable it until properly setup as advised (following procedure) on: http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/v3_knock_control.html
config validate has one error, lowmap fuelcut to high (set to 26kpa) better 18-20 kpa
table kpa table unit = 4 selected not recommended for your setup (with 300kpa map sensor) 2 should suffice as recommended on: http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/v3_ecu_calibration.html
ign table does not make sense, seems inverted logic (too much advance @ low rpm, not enough @ high rpm, nonsense kpa scaling)
because lotsof settings (even basic settings) are incorrect, it is highly recommended to take lessons from experienced tuners. Risk of breaking this engine is very significant!

Best regards, Dave - DB