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Thank for finally talking about >Report details

Hello Norby,

I have reviewed warm.zip -> sectrigfalling.triggerlog and CAM.JPG, the window seems to be very narrow indeed; Sectrig position in triggerlog moved ~40 degree to the left (earlier).

I am unable to wrap my head around the measurements you reported from trigger pins, were you able to find out whats going on? like a badly crimped wire or loose receptacle in connector or alike ?

Best regards, Dave

I told you wrong. I didn\'t disconnect the primary trigger connector when i was measuring the 0.6V on the +5V supply pinms. Now i disconnected it and i measure 11.2V!!?? Checked many times on ECU side and sensor connector side too.
Bad +5V regulator?

Dave!

This is a small windowed cam gear. You can see on the picture (cam.jpg)
I changed the sectrig edge from rising to falling but nothing happened. The engine runing like before. I made falling.vemslog and falling.triggerlog


I warmed up the engine and i was logging to the end.
When the engine warmed up suddenly stopped. - warmingup.and.stop.vemslog at 5:06s.
After this i make a triggerlog after restart while engine runing and stop. warmidle.after.stop.vemslog and warmruning.triggerlog and there is a warmcranking.triggerlog without firing and squirt.

BUT!!!! I wanted to scoping the cranksignal pin when it disconnected from vems and pullup from +5V EC36/28 with 2k7ohm. I think i found the problem. I measure 0.6V on EC36/28-29. When i disconnect the TPS,Crank and camshaft sensor nothing happened. Continously 0.6V on these pins. Before i measure +5V on these pins more times. I checked the +5V wires but these not closed to GND nowhere and i can\'t measure resistance between +5V and GND.

Attached file:
warm.zip
-warmcranking.triggerlog
-warmrunning.triggerlog
-warmidle.and.stop.vemslog
-warmingup.and.stop.vemslog
-sectrigfalling.vemslog
-sectrigfalling.triggerlog
-CAM.jpg

Thanks
Norbi

Hello Norby,

Perhaps it has a half moon like (~180 degree window) shape ? In that case switching sectrig from falling to rising edge might have the desired effect (together with the other proposed changes).

Best regards, Dave

I can\'t rotate the camshaft trigger wheel :( This is fix, under the camwheel.
In my other 60-2 AAN config the camshaft signal came a little bit earlier. And i can apply the correct ignition order (1-2-4-5-3, Stepper A-B-C-D-Ign04) FTT=1 and the TDC delay= about 85-90.
In this config i can\'t do this because the 1st cylinder are firing 180degrees earlier.At first time i tried this. I tried to change the secondary trigger edge from rising to faling but not helped. On other engine when the camsync is near to good position and the 1st cylinder are firing earlier 180degrees and i change the edge to falling the problem are solving.
Now the engine was cold without problem. Should i warming up and wait when it will be stop(if will stop) with this config? I think about the temperature can causing the signal fail because after the first succesfull starting the signal was never good while it wasn\'t cold down. With warm engine alwasy failing the signal.

Norbi

Hello Norby,

I have reviewed your triggerlogs, good format and very good detailed feedback!

Triggerlog: falling.triggerlog looks perfect on the primary side, but the position of the secondary trigger is a bit unfortunate because it shifts the tooth cnt of FTT up to an borderline problematic range. To correct this i would suggest the following changes:

* move your single window hall trigger to the alternate crank cycle by rotating it 150-170 cam degrees counter rotation
* shift your ignition outputs in VT->ignition outputs visual, up 3 times.
* adjust your primary trigger settings as follows:
** first trigger tooth = 1
** tdc after the trigger = ~61 (verify with timing light)

After these changes and verifying with timing light, could you upload another triggerlog ? Thanks!

Best regards, Dave

Hello!
Last time when the car warmed up the engine stopped suddenly. I can\'t measure voltage on EC36/27 when the sensor connected. Disconnected sensor 4.7V measured. I couldn\'t measure any signal with oscilloscope or multimeter.
Now the car has arrived on trailer to my garage. I made some triggerlog what you asked and made oscilloscope log from the HALL signal on low idle (700rpm)
Now the voltage on EC36/27 when engine cranking or running on idle about 2.0-2.2V.
Cable of crank sensor are new made.
I attached report.zip :
-falling.vemslog
-falling.triggerlog
-rising.vemslog
-rising.triggerlog
-running.triggerlog (falling)
-running.vemslog (falling)
-trigger.bmp
-trigger.txt recorded by hantek USB oscilloscope

Thanks
Norbi

It was recommended that falling edge is more likely the good selection for HALL (btw: combine primtrig_falling or primtrig_rising in the triggerlog filename );
Norbi says bad HALL sensor is suspected now.
Marcell

Hello Norby,

Please to streamline any remote review of whats going on, only change one thing at a time.

So my suggestion:

1) revert back to firmware 1.2.31, which is known good.
2) reload the config from v3.3_u011054-2016.08.05-20.52.52.vemslog, and change only trigger edge from rising to falling.
3) after changing trigger edge, the ecu must be power cycled (ignition and ecu off, on)
4) make another triggerlog cranking 8-10 seconds without ign and injection fuse
5) make a vemslog also of cranking 8-10 seconds no ign and injection fuse
6) upload both files to this report with appropriate names

After this i will review and make suggestions on how to proceed,
Best regards,

Dave

Hello!
I tried to change the edge type from rising to falling many times but nothing happened.
I uploaded an older firmware and an other config- At first time i didn\'t see the rpm, The battery voltage became too low so we changed to the high loaded battery and then i saw the rpm and i could setting the ignition order and TDC delay. After this the engine startup and runing without trigger problems.
Today we started the engine and warmed up, The engine was stoped and the problem came again. RPM doesn\'t work, and i recorded a bad.triggerlog.
The engine is a 2.5tdi block with AAN head and AAN original harness with Motronic to Econoseal adapter. The harness is in very good condition. I checked every pins and wires.
The primary trigger sensor is original 60-2 sensor from a 2004 VW 16V. There is between the flywheel and crankshaft. The trigger and the sensor are new. I used this setting many times without problem.
I will try to check the crank signal on the adapter with oscilloscope. Yesterday i did it but i measured on the harness in the connector of sensor. It was good.
I changed the original RPM sensor\'s pinout for the new sensor follows:
pin1=+5V EC36/28
pin2=signal EC36/27
pin3=GND EC36/26

Hello Norbitron,

I have reviewed your triggerlog (v3.3_u011054-2016-08-05-20.54.20.triggerlog) it clearly pointed to a cause of your problem; You primary triggger Hall is configured for the wrong edge, please change primary trigger edge to Falling from current Rising.

If you have any issues after that, please upload another triggerlog and vemslog for me to review; Thanks!

Best regards, Dave

If it's trivial, you can do it with the help of VT help http://vems.hu/vt/help/

It it's not (or you cannot complete with just the VT help), a thematical project page is required (recommended in http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage ) . 2.5L is more common in Volvo engines... Not in Audi AAN. What other mods are applied? Is this from diesel rods ? What is exact primtrig setup ?

I don't see triggerlog included in the zip file.
I could only see the vemscfg in text editor, I could not spot anything from quick look. I don't have ECU, or even proper VT now for real tests;
Are we absolutely certain that triggerlog was correct (with no double pulses in sectrig or similar ?) ? Can you count the primtrig pulses (select and VT will show) ? 58 for sure ??? It'd be a grave situation to have wrong number of pulses (yes, it did happen before on CNC "homemade" wheel, and exactly the same symptoms: triggerlog "look good" but RPM=10).

Marcell

Hi Norbi,

I'm on holiday, with no ECU to reproduce/test it now.

5Cyl 60-2 is often used in Volvo. Look around http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?action=find&find=volvo
Marcell

The relevant configlet is (please check them all, eg. reftooth settings):
configlets/trigger$ less 5cyl_60-2.txt
#trigger settings for 60-2 5 cyl
ign_tdcdelay=78
trigger_tooth=00
another_trigger_tooth=18
tooth_wheel=3A
primary_trigger=01
secondary_trigger=19
ignchmax=04
alternate=14
tooth_wheel_twidth[0]=00
tooth_wheel_twidth[1]=18
config11=40
max_prim_per_sec_count=FF
strig_validation=00
h[1]=00 60 48 30 18 FF FF FF