Ford Escort Cosworth engine InputTrigger/LanciaCosworth
After car purchased,
- fw upgrade
- (re)configuration
- logging
- verification (and perhaps some retune)
Note: splitting to separate pages is a good idea (for easier overview and reference).
get error : file "vems.hex" is missing.
duplicate from report: http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=zprqad
Hello Rico_pl,
Upgrade to firmware higher than 1.2.11 requires bootloader upgrade,
please follow the procedures on:
http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/general/bootloader_upgrade.html
Best regards, Dave
GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges shows improvements related to InputTrigger/LanciaCosworth were made available from 1.2.26 (so practically 1.2.31 or newer firmware recommended, with new VemsTune).
- "TDC after the trigger" (eg. to 90 degrees) ... strobing is always nice practice
Thanks Dave, as I bought the car with VEMS unit (Escort Cosworth), I have set Trigger to "Lancia_cosworth".
- Primtrig: VR 90 degree evenly spaced 4 pulses on crank
- sectrig: VR 2 cam-pulses unevenly (180+540 crankdeg IIRC)
My first error report shows I have trigger signals but RPM is 0 while cranking. Acc. to WIKI I should use firmware 1.2.26+. Yes, correct ?
- Or should it work also with 1.2.11 ?
- initial sync, cranking would be inferior with any fw < 1.2.26 (playing recorded signal from a running engine would fire the good sequence).
I cannot see why RPM stays 0 while cranking. Fuel is injecting.
BR, Rico
Hello Rico,
To assist you in your startup/trigger debug, i would need the following:
- a triggerlog of engine cranking 8-10 seconds no IGN or INJ fuses
- a vemslog of the same sequence
Using these i can get a beter understanding of whats going on.
You can upload these files to the FileArea and link here or fire a sharing report (from VT) and link that. We'll work from there.
Best regards, Dave
Hi Dave,
here the link http://vems.hu/vemstune/sharingcenter/reports.php?cmd=view&key=pmPtyJ
BR Rico
Hello Rico,
I have reviewed your triggerlog and vemslog, this trigger type should work with special trigger type = Normal, Tdc after the trigger is likely to be around 60deg (actually more likely 90 deg), use a timing light to verify and adjust.
I have attached a corrected config (having these suggested changes) to your sharing report.
Best regards, Dave
Thanks I will test this. But why is RPM =0 ?
I thought it triggers on TDC so 0 degree ?
- no, but 90 deg, because triggers from the PREVIOUS tooth (if configured correctly) which is 90 deg before TDC.
BR, Rico
Hello Rico,
When using simple trigger with camsync, rpm will show 0 when cam sync is not accepted (or not seen), so without sync it will not show rpm.
With the corrected settings that should hopefully be solved.
Best regards, Dave
Thanks Dave, but I do not understand the 60 degree value.
If I set TDC both teeth (prim, sec) are on the sensors,so
0 degree.
Actually 90 deg, because triggers from the PREVIOUS tooth (if configured correctly) which is 90 deg before TDC. So likely not 60 (but especially not 0, that would be invalid).
Sorry for all questions, you can give me your Paypal and I
can make a donation.
BR Rico
Hello Rico,
Lets take it one step at a time, with the corrected config do you have:
- good rpm and sync ?
- spark on all cylinders ?
If so adjust tdc_delay so commanded timing advance lines up with your timing mark. Its recommended to force a fixed advance via:
- VT->Starting/Idle->Priming, Cranking, Afterstart Setup->Cranking Ignition Advance (cranking only, initial setup).
- later check (again) via VT->Tools->Ignition lock (when engine running)
Ignition base (verify with strobelight)
- small adjustments can be done with tdc_delay (1/2 crankdegree steps)
- bigger (eg. 6 .. 30 crankdegree depending on wheel) steps: it is recommended to choose the first trigger tooth so that tdc_delay is in the range of 60-100deg.
- finally the spark advance (tuning) in 1/4 crankdegree steps
Hi Dave, I uploaded latest log in sharing report.
RPM is now ok. In Test Mode a spark is there.
How is the First Trigger Tooth defined ?
- tooth0 is the tooth after the missing tooth.
- eg. TDC after the trigger = 66 deg + First Trigger Tooth=6 (*6 deg for 60-2 wheel) means TDC is 66+36=102 deg after tooth0
Thanks, but I have no missing tooth. Ford has only 4 teeth wheel.(+ 1 tooth dizzy/distributor)
I use COP kit so using strobe is difficult. I will try.
BR Rico
Hi Dave, no luck it won't start.What would be the FTT on
my setup ?
If I modify the sectrig (30 degree before TDC) would that help ?
Thanks, Rico
Hello Rico,
Verify ignition timing with timing light and adjust tdc_delay , first triggfer tooth where needed, make sure firing order is correct on your ignition outputs.
On COPS you can use a small piece of old ignition lead between COP and sparkplug and put the timing light there
If you have rpm and sparks, getting the engine to fire should just be close.
Best regards,
Dave
Hi Dave,
checked timing but still not starting. It seems when I plug all ignition and injectors that on cranking the injectors
get no signal or the plugs. In Test mode the injectors work. I tried with 2 batteries but still no spark.
Before I removed all plugs and they were sparking. (but injectors were unplugged)
Thanks, Rico
Hi Dave, finally found the issue. It seems the FPR was locked so inside the tank a hose was ripped. So fuel pump was working but no fuel to the engine. It starts now but it wants to set Lambda 1.0 with a cold engine so it dies after few seconds.
How to prevent this ?
Thanks, Rico
Hello Rico,
The likeliest cause of engine dying after startup is either required fuel too low (see base setup->engine setup->required fuel in VT help: http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/v3_engine_setup.html) or afterstart/warmup enrichment need adjusting (see starting/idle warmup enrichment/afterstart enrichment curve).
The closed loop targets for ego control are set in the Lambda target table.
Best regards,
Dave
Thanks Dave, it seems an issue also with the triggers. When idling the trigger signals are red most of the time ?
I will send log file.
BR, Rico
Can you please check the log file (is shared).
Thanks, Rico
---
Hello Rico,
I have reviewed your logfile from your sharing report: http://vems.hu/vemstune/bugreports/reports.php?cmd=view&key=pmPtyJ
There seem to be some trigger issues there indeed, to get a better understanding of it could you please provide a triggerlog of engine cranking 8-10 seconds without IGN and INJ fuse and second to that a triggerlog while engine is running at idle ?
Please attach both triggerlog files to your report and clearly label them which is which. Thanks!
Best regards, Dave
Hi Dave, can you send me a base VE table for my Cosworth ?
(standard 2.0 ltr. boost ca. 1.5 bar)
I will send trigger log later.
Thanks, Rico
Hello Rico,
No Tuning is up to the end user or you could contact one of our resellers/installers in your area to tune it for you. In any case, resolving the trigger errors is imperative before any tuning is attempted. When the triggerlogs are available i will review.
Best regards, Dave
Hi Dave, ok I shared the trigger log file.
It shows start and idle running till it dies.
The crank sensor is new and on cranking it looks ok.
Thanks, Rico
Hello Rico,
I have reviewed your triggerlog, it looks you are are suffering from noise on the primary trigger, in many cases in your triggerlog (on random locations) a small (timed from previous) triggerpulse follows the correct trigger pulse.
To resolve:
- first off all check your grounding, did you follow the rules as outlined in GenBoard/Manual/GroundConnections ?
- make sure you used a shielded cable for both primary trigger VR and secondary trigger VR, if not correct it
- make sure your VR shields are connected on ecu side only.
Like stated earlier, your trigger errors need to be solved before ANY tuning can be attemped. Please check the points i suggested and come back to me with your findings, we'll work from there.
Best regards, Dave
Thanks a lot Dave ! I bought the car with VEMS installed so I hope they did it correctly. It did run apparently.
I will check the things you wrote.
BR, Rico