Members Page/Pete Krgr - VEMS wiki www.vems.hu

MembersPage/PeteKrgr (2007-10-20 06:18:41)

Building a Porsche 3,0l 944 turbo

Now the details that affect VEMS specs and installation.

original Bosch Motronic sensors will be used
- water temp x2 , oil press, knock
- exceptions are MAT and MAP, these will be from VEMS web shop
original wiring loom will be used
fuel injectors are SiemensDeka
- Static Flow Rate (GAS): 86 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa) = 903cc/min, 10.88g/s
- Coil Resistance: 2.35 Ohms / Low Impedance / Low-Z
Ignition for starters wasted spark, with option to COP
TPS will most likely be the one that comes with ITBs
For trigger see below

Trigger - Both are VR PPaadam

Porsche 944 turbo Trigger:

132teeth on flywheel -VR sensor
Crank home (1 pin on flywheel 24.5 tooth, ie 66.8 dec BTDC 24.5 x 2.7272 deg, if i remember right) -VR sensor.
No cam sensor
And no missing teeth anywhere!

Are You doing Plug and Play to motronic harness? Same project. Yes.

For both sensor, measure all pairs of pins, in both direction (with a 3 pin connector this is 3*2=6 measurements). Write them here.

Measure sensor resistance and measure DC

''This, is very important. Measure from the econoseal-wire connector (with ECU removed), so that you also verify the wiring.

primary trigger VR: measure Ohm between EC36pin26 and EC36pin27'' 22.7kOhm

* secondary trigger VR: measure Ohm between EC36pin26 and EC18pin12 0, but between EC36pin25 and EC36pin13 3.46kohm

Write your measurements above. Confirm that they measure approximately the same in both directions. Preferrably also measure (and publish) DC voltage (measure between same wires, but maybe easier in the engine bay before you insulate the trigger wires) when the ECU is connected. If there are problems, do the DC measurements and publish all firmware + config info as IssueReports

DC V measurements later...

OK, what I now know is this. Info above about flyweel teeth count, pin on flywheel and sensors type are correct, that pin position has just to be confirmed. I bought yesterday a book "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management" and it describes this system

" For the most accurate measure of engine timing and speed, Motronic systems read the position of the crankshaft directly. Special sensors pick up signals from the flywheel teeth."

"The rpm sensor ( also called the engine speed sensor ) is an inductive-pulse sender that picks up pulses from a toothed wheel, usually the flywheel. The rpm signal can be displayed on a scope just as it is sent to the control unit, one blip or spike for each tooth. It is so accurate it can sense an rpm chance while the crankshaft turns only a few degrees.

The TDC, or reference mark sensor ( reference from cylinder no1 TDC ),is triggered by a set screw on the flywheel. each time the srew passes the TDC sensor, the sensor signals one blip for each crankshaft revolution. Both ensors are magnetic, with a soft iron core that stores the magnetic field. When a tooth in the flywheel or the reference sensorpin moves though the magnetic field, the change induces an electrical voltage in the winding. This voltage is he input signal to the control unit. The sensor is known as a passive diffusionfield sensor, because it does not require a current supply."

I have these both new sensors, identical, at home, I will post their Bosch number here as I return home. I guess this makes the system what is called the Auditrigger.

Trigger measurement: If you have those VR triggers on table, is it possible for you to measure the polarity of them? As you know they are quite difficult to get access while the engine is on car.

Measuring Vr trigger polarity.

Measure with DVM, 200mV DC mode. If your wheel has normal shape (missing tooth), than signel should be +few mV when you move ferrous metal (iron) towards the sensor, and -few mV when you move it away. The reading shows up for a very short time only (while the sensor actually sees the movement)

Shopping list

Assembled v3.3 controller

1-wire interface no
ignition driver 4
Knock and EGT yes
LCD and PS2 yes
MAP connection 400kPa onboard (5/3mm pneumatic) 'I'd recommend 6/4mm connection' PPaadam
mounting-style screws
PowerFlyback yes
primary_trigger VR
secondary_trigger VR ''Should be "auditrigger"' PPaadam

EconoSeal36-Wire
Econoseal18-Wire
EGT sensor (K-type) Size 2mm
K-thermocouple connector
- mounting-style panel-mount
- Sex pair
- mounting-style flyback
- Sex pair
Wideband O2 sensor
Wideband connector
- With wire with crimped wires
MAT sensor
Pneumatic valve 3way

Update on the 29th of April.'

While being busy with engine's installation I also did the wiring harness, modifying the old one for VEMS. I removed unnnecessary parts, reused some wires with new tasks and build completely new harness for fuel injction and ignition. I also replaced DME & KLR harness connectors with Econoseals and integrated Apexi AVC-R to this harness. I attached the VEMS box to the original installation plate at passenger's footwell. There was so much space that I managed to place fuses and AVC-R's own MAP sensor there. There's still some pins/wires unconnected ( see questions below ) and some finishing work to be done, but I thing that I can start configuring my system next week.

Unfortunately all my pictures are at the moment at page that needs password, but I try to change that later.

Questions with new ones

How shift light output is done? It is done using rpm triggered outputs

Any specific info on this one...eg. which pin? ...although I have now read the instruction manual and have some clue about this myself...

Found this out myself when configuring the unit.

I want the original boost gauge in instrument panel to be functional. The problem here is that it is electronic, ie. the Motronic's KLR ( boost & knock control unit ) feeds it. So it needs output from Genboard. Other peoples obsevations how the signal is handled can be found here

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=313463&page=2&pp=5&highlight=boost+signal

Is it possible to get such output, and scale it a bit differently? Now the gauge shows 1,0 when MAP is athmospheric, and I would like it to mean 1,0bar boost... Does anyone have anything on this, like proper pin number and possible configuration data...??

Related to previous question, how can I get rpm signal out of the VEMS? 12V or 5V logic level pin and how to configure it ??

Found also this out myself.

More questions

Do I need PowerFlyback when using low-impedance injectors?? Yes, definitely

Specifications:

Board_version=v3.3

Serial_nr= 748

pump-= 4.16V

wbo2_pump_pw_zero=0x67

wbo2_nernstdc_target=0x86

pump+= -3.3mV/200 Ohm

AREF=4.9V

(C103=1nF, no D100)

Firmware 1.1.24 1.1.24 or 1.1.25 seems like a good choice for 132+1

Auditrigger was initially according to PhatBob's instructions:

EC36#27 VR+ ( primary ) = CRANK speed sensor

EC36#13 VR+ ( secondary ) = reference sensor (whel HALL!)

EC36#26 VR- ( primary & secondary )

but changed to

EC36#27 VR+ ( primary ), = CRANK speed sensor

EC18#12 VR- ( secondary ), = VR reference sensor

EC36#26 VR- ( primary )

EC36#26 VR+ ( secondary )

after discussions with Miska. So installation instructions should be updated considering this part.

Trigger is: 132+1 per crankrot, or 264+2 per camrot (132+1 means you have 66 pulses on crank, and 1 pulse on cam). But above says differently

Update 17-07-07

After these wiring changes and checking config I managed to get RPM to MegaTune. However there's no spark or fuel. I have current flowing to WS coil and injectors, but nothing further, like Genboard doesn't send any signals. Config should be correct, at least it's set according to installation instructions. Wiring is checked too.

Update 01-08-07

Reason for no spark and fuel was this brilliant "Installation instructions" found from Wiki...it says there that for WS coil one should use 5V logig level output. However when reading from Bosch WS-coil's information page you can see that it requires 12V output. While I do not have a Bosch coil I hadn't looked that page earlier. But now, when close to despair, I did some searching I found this and changed pins. Now it works. I just have to calibrate WBO2 and EGT sensors and do some serious tuning. But before that I have a massive vacuum leak to be fixed.

Configuration:

Config & Tables OCT/2007:

-Disclaimer: config is mostly OK, but tables are highly experimental

primep=0A

primep_temp_scaling=1A

cwl=28

cwh=0A

cranking_thres=03

awev=23

awev_temp_scaling=0D

awec=28

warmup_clt_range[0]=00

warmup_clt_range[1]=11

warmup_clt_range[2]=23

warmup_clt_range[3]=32

warmup_clt_range[4]=51

warmup_clt_range[5]=63

warmup_clt_range[6]=75

warmup_clt_range[7]=8C

warmup_clt_range[8]=B4

warmup_clt_range[9]=C6

warmup_clt[0]=8C

warmup_clt[1]=8C

warmup_clt[2]=8C

warmup_clt[3]=8C

warmup_clt[4]=8C

warmup_clt[5]=8C

warmup_clt[6]=85

warmup_clt[7]=7C

warmup_clt[8]=6C

warmup_clt[9]=64

warmup_rpm_scale=66

req_fuel=26

divider=01

alternate=00

injopen=00

battfac=13

kpafac=C8

kpaoffs=9A

injocfuel=15

injrampup_battfac=FF

injpwm=FF

injpwmt=FF

als_launch_input=0C

rpmk[0]=0B

rpmk[1]=B8

tpsdot_kpadot_conf=16

tpsdotrate[0]=02

tpsdotrate[1]=05

tpsdotrate[2]=08

tpsdotrate[3]=0F

tpsaq[0]=0A

tpsaq[1]=32

tpsaq[2]=64

tpsaq[3]=FA

als_cut_mintps=FF

tpsasync=FF

acmult=71

tpsacold=1E

launch_enrich=FF

launch_retard=FF

overrun_fuelcut=4A

overrun_fuelresume=19

rev_limit=28

airden_ignore=00

config11=30

config12=30

config13=02

batt_cal=C0

fastidle=0C

als_max_cut=E0

dbaro=FF

tps_low=22

tps_high=FF

fan_temp=E1

fan_hyst=02

fan_channel=4F

iac_step_seq=64

iac_conf=78

iac_max_steps=1E

iac_tps_thres=0D

iac_cold_idle_temp=B4

iac_warm_idle_temp=AB

iac_cold_rpm=6E

iac_warm_rpm=5A

iac_cold_start_pos=99

iac_warm_start_pos=66

iac_afterstart_rpm=14

iac_afterstart_duration=96

iac_speed=C8

iac_kp=74

iac_ki=67

iac_kd=E2

launch_rpm=FF

iac_integral_limit_dec=0F

iac_integral_limit_inc=20

iac_integral_deadband=04

iac_deadband=04

als_cut_maxtps=FF

iac_overclose_interval=30

iac_ref_pos[0]=73

iac_ref_pos[1]=70

iac_ref_pos[2]=6E

iac_ref_pos[3]=6B

iac_ref_pos[4]=69

iac_ref_pos[5]=66

iac_ref_pos[6]=63

iac_ref_pos[7]=61

iac_ref_pos[8]=5E

iac_ref_pos[9]=5C

iac_sol_channel=60

iac_ign_slope=78

softrpm_range=FF

iac_ign_advance_limit=10

iac_ign_retard_limit=08

iac_ign_threshold=3C

ego_conf=06

ego_lag=14

ego_coolant=B4

ego_maxtps=80

ego_maxmap=3C

ego_minrpm=0F

ego_maxrpm=32

ego_warmup=5A

ego_lean_limit=26

ego_rich_limit=03

ego_pid_kp=1E

als_enrich=00

ego_delta=03

ego_target=19

ego_pid_window=FF

wbo2_warmup_ramp=A0

als_react_tps=FF

wbo2_abs_limit=E4

wbo2_limit_maxt=A0

wbo2_fallback=B0

wbo2_retry_t=06

als_retard_rpm1=BA

als_retard_rpm2=50

wbo2_ri_target=96

wbo2_nernstdc_target=86

wbo2_pump_pw_zero=67

wbo2_calibration=BF

wbo2_heater_pid_kp=46

wbo2_heater_pid_ki=10

wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A

wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80

wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15

wbo2_pump_pid_ki=4E

wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00

wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=84

wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80

knock_conf=FD

knock_sampling_window=F3

knock1_frequency=E3

knock1_gain=C0

knock1_integrator=EF

knock2_frequency=E3

knock2_gain=C0

knock2_integrator=EF

knock_threshold=00

knock_noise_scale=00

knock_max_retard=18

knock_default_retard=08

knock_retard_step=08

knock_retard_delay=07

knock_advance_step=04

knock_advance_delay=0D

knock_minrpm=0F

knock_maxrpm=48

ve_learn_coolant=C6

ve_learn_max_power=FF

ve_learn_rpm_scale=32

ve_learn_kpa_scale=32

ve_learn_ego_scale=32

ve_learn_min_weight=01

ve_learn_speed=64

ve_learn_limit=40

ve_learn_conf=01

lcd_c0=0F

lcd_delay=2F

lcd_backlight=FF

kpa_conf=22

als_igncut_rpm2=00

als_retard_mintps=FF

als_retard_maxtps=FF

lcd_default_view=01

primary_trigger=C3

secondary_trigger=19

tooth_wheel=42

trigger_tooth=01

another_trigger_tooth=21

crank_minper=33

tooth_wheel_twidth1=16

tooth_wheel_twidth2=00

cam_sync_r_edge_phase=00

cam_sync_f_edge_phase=00

reset_engphase_after=40

ign_tdcdelay=52

ign_dwell14=27

ign_dwell6=CC

ign_crank_advance=30

ign_out=70

ignchmax=01

engine_off_delay=08

pump_on_mintime=08

fuelpump_channel=57

inj_stage2_rate=00

inj_stage2_start_tps=FF

inj_stage2_start_map=FF

als_igncut_rpm1=FF

als_deact_time=FF

als_deact_egt=FF

als_retard=00

als_rev_limit=FF

misc1out_minrpm=08

misc1out_maxrpm=3C

misc1out_mintps=00

misc1out_maxtps=CC

misc1out_minmap=14

misc1out_maxmap=A0

misc1out_channel=0F

misc2out_minrpm=FF

misc2out_maxrpm=FF

misc2out_mintps=FF

misc2out_maxtps=FF

misc2out_minmap=FF

misc2out_maxmap=FF

misc2out_channel=0F

act_wot_rpm=FF

act_wot_channel=FF

act_rpm_rpm=FF

act_rpm_channel=FF

egt1_cal=4B

als_tks_channel=FF

boost_conf=00

boost_targetoffs=FF

boost_minpressure=FF

boost_pid_kp=FF

boost_pid_ki=FF

boost_pid_kd=FF

boost_pid_ilimit=FF

boost_channel=FF

water_pump_temp=7E

hybrid_rpm_a=00

hybrid_rpm_m=00

water_pump_hyst=00

water_pump_channel=8F

toothrel_normal=FF

toothrel_missing=FF

fuelcut_min_kpa=0A

fuelcut_max_kpa=C8

tach_channel=F2

tach_div=10

shiftcut_conf=ED

shiftcut_channel=FF

shiftcut_time=FF

softrpm_rpm=46

j[0]=2580 2780 2C80 3880 4480 4E80 5780 5D80 6580 6580 6380 6280 6380 5C80 5A80 5780

j[1]=2780 2980 2D80 3C80 4880 5380 5D80 6380 6880 6B80 6980 6680 6580 6280 6080 5D80

j[2]=2880 2A80 3080 3F80 4D80 5780 6280 6980 6E80 7180 6F80 6C80 6B80 6880 6580 6380

j[3]=2A80 2C80 3380 4280 5080 5C80 6880 6E80 6E80 7780 7580 7280 6F80 6E80 6B80 6880

j[4]=2880 2F80 3680 4780 5480 6080 6C80 7480 7D80 7D80 7B80 7880 7580 7280 6F80 6E80

j[5]=2880 3080 3880 4A80 5980 6580 7280 7B80 8180 8480 7B80 7880 7580 7280 6F80 6E80

j[6]=2880 3280 3B80 4D80 5D80 6980 7780 8080 8980 8A80 8780 8480 8180 7E80 7B80 7880

j[7]=2880 3380 3F80 5380 6380 7180 8180 8A80 9280 9580 9380 8F80 8C80 8680 8680 8180

j[8]=2A80 3580 4480 5980 6B80 7A80 8A80 9580 9B80 A180 9F80 9B80 9680 9280 8F80 8A80

j[9]=2C80 3880 4880 5F80 7280 8380 9580 9F80 A580 AB80 AA80 A580 A180 9C80 9980 9580

j[A]=2D80 3E80 4E80 6580 7880 8980 9B80 A580 AB80 B180 B080 AB80 A780 A280 9F80 9B80

j[b]=3080 4280 5780 6E80 8380 9680 AA80 B680 BC80 C280 BF80 BC80 B680 B180 AE80 AA80

j[C]=3380 4780 5A80 7880 8F80 A580 BA80 C680 CC80 D280 CF80 CC80 C680 C080 BD80 BA80

j[D]=3B80 5180 6880 8780 A580 BC80 D280 E180 F080 F880 F080 EA80 E480 DE80 DA80 D480

l[0]=37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37

l[1]=37 37 37 34 2C 2C 2C 2C 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37

l[2]=37 37 37 34 2C 2C 2C 2C 37 47 4F 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C

l[3]=37 37 37 34 2C 2C 2C 2C 37 47 4F 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C

l[4]=37 37 37 34 2C 2C 2C 2C 37 47 4F 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C

l[5]=37 37 37 34 2C 2C 2C 34 37 47 4F 5C 5C 5C 5C 66

l[6]=37 37 37 34 34 34 34 37 47 4F 5C 5C 5C 5C 66 66

l[7]=37 37 37 37 37 37 37 47 4F 5C 5C 5C 66 66 66 66

l[8]=37 47 47 47 47 47 47 4F 5C 5C 66 66 66 66 66 66

l[9]=37 4F 4F 4F 4F 4F 4F 5C 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66

l[A]=37 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66

l[B]=37 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66

l[C]=37 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66

l[D]=37 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66

n[0]=3C 3C 58 58 7C 80 84 84 84 84 84 84 84 84 84 84

n[1]=3C 3C 58 58 7C 80 84 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90

n[2]=3C 3C 58 58 78 7C 84 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90 90

n[3]=3C 3C 58 64 78 7C 8C 98 98 98 98 98 98 98 98 98

n[4]=3C 3C 58 70 7C 84 8C 98 98 98 98 98 98 9C 98 98

n[5]=3C 3C 64 70 7C 84 8C 98 98 98 98 98 98 98 98 98

n[6]=48 48 64 6C 70 74 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80

n[7]=64 64 44 54 54 54 64 6C 6C 70 74 74 74 74 74 74

n[8]=64 64 44 44 44 48 50 54 5C 5C 60 60 60 5C 5C 5C

n[9]=64 64 44 3C 3C 40 48 48 48 48 4C 50 50 50 4C 4C

n[A]=64 64 44 3C 3C 40 44 44 44 44 48 48 48 48 48 48

n[B]=64 64 54 54 48 48 48 48 54 5C 5C 5C 5C 64 64 64

n[C]=64 64 54 48 3C 3C 3C 3C 48 48 54 54 5C 5C 64 64

n[D]=64 64 54 48 3C 3C 3C 3C 48 48 54 54 5C 64 64 64

k[0]=14 19 1E 23 28 2D 32 3C 46 50 5A 64 7D 96

r[0]=08 0A 0D 0F 14 19 1E 23 28 2D 32 37 3C 41 46 4B

h[0]=0F 00 00 00 00 00 40 80

h[1]=00 63 42 21 00 00 00 00

h[2]=31 22 02 02 02 02 02 02

b[0]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF

WBO2 calibration problem

Tuning of the car is at the moment quite difficult, because I cant't calibrate my WBO2. I followed instructions found from MembersPage/PhatBob/UserGuide with no success. It says:

"Once the heater is up to temperature the O2% reading will display a value rather than question marks. We now need to adjust the calibration value so that the O2% reading is correct. The earths atmosphere is 20.9% Oxygen, we'll settle for a figure close to that.

RPM:0000 W00I00 P099

009F 77, 10EC D3 P

00 F1 00 00 0DDD

AFR=? O2%=20.9

To change the wideband calibration value type Manmttg8bcA8mcs and then type mll a few times to get an idea of the average value that its displaying. To increase the calibration amount increase the hex number after Manmttg8bc from A8 to A9, AA...AF while checking for changes by typing mll."

So command Manmttg8bcA8mcs gives O2% of 12.8, command Manmttg8bcAFmcs gives 13.0% and max hex of Manmttg8bcFFmcs gives just 16.0% . Quite far from 20.9%, isn't it??

Sensor is a BOSCH LSU-4 from VEMS web shop and the Genboard is calibrated. What's the reason and how to solve the problem?? AFAIK I'm not alone with this...one fellow Finn had similar issue and it was solved when he changed the sensor to one that came with Innovate LC-1.

Pete, you can use LCD and keyboard to heat up the sensor and get it to show O2%, and just open MT and adjust WB calibration constant from there (Settings -> Wideband settings -> Calibration constant), results are visible "live" as soon as you change the constant. You can verify that it's spot on by shutting down the heater (mde00), ECU and then heating it up again. MembersPage/PeepPaadam

Thanks Peep, I just tried this, but the calibration constant was already at 254 ( and the max is 255 ) so this wasn't helping.

MembersPage/PhatBob Are you 100% sure that the sensor is clean? I had person with a similar issue, his sensor had become contaminated, after 10minutes with the heater on, there was smoke, a bad smell and then the O2 started to rise...

I just tried one new, ie unused sensor with similar results. And I torched my sensor with propane, no change.

For info, I did some measurements mentioned in User Guide ( for calibrating WBO2 controller cicuit ) and got these values.

WBO2_pin5 - GND 4.08V

WBO2_pin1 - WBO2_pin5 0.45V

WBO2_pin5 - WBO2_pin6 -60mV

Other specs in the text way above...

Is there anything to do/measure??

I have also checked my wiring, all connections at right places and wire impedance ( looping two wires at a time ) is 0.5 ohm.

I'm beginning to believe that the problem is in the 1.1.24 -firmware, can anyone check it??

You could flash the ECU to 1.0.73 firmware and see how WB acts on that. It's a 5minute task. MembersPage/PeepPaadam

Problem solved. It works better ( = warms up ) if the +12V is connected. I had fused it together with fuel pump, and I take fuel pump fuse off when I do not run the engine because of noise and battery life... I checked all other wiring except this ssupply several times.

Anyway, it's now calibrated. if there's something good in this, I've learned quite much about MegaTune, terminal program and using the LCD.

Update 20-10-07

I finally found the reason for the problem I've had with my car all the autumn. It has been burning fuel in exhaust from time to time and idle has been also very rough, but not consistently. I thought I had trouble finding correct settings, but one ignition plug was not functioning correctly. This has caused much delay in tuning and solving minor issues, like

-while ICV is functioning, it clicks at approx rate of 4-6 clicks / second. What should I adjust to remove clicking?

-while ICV is functioning, idle rpm is high despite the throttle is fully closed. Is adjusting the iac_ref_pos the correct way to solve this?

One bigger issue: Pulse Width in MegaTune remains in 0.2ms all the time. Is this an indication of malfunctioning hardware or software??

Then some more: When checking my ignition timing with a stobe light, I got a ign_tdcdelay of 41 degrees - 52 hex with divider 2. Ign crank advance was set to 0 and trigger_tooth = 1. If I set trigger_tooth = 0, the ign_tdcdelay is 47 degrees - 5E hex with divider 2, as it should be, and the engine runs as previously, as it should do. But the difference to the existing system is still 20 degrees: (24,5 x 2,7272*)-5,5* = 66,8*-5,5* = 61,5*

What's the explanation to this??

These are the settings I got ready counted, translated from finnish:

rpmk=3000 (12000 / 4 cyl)