M117 5.6L even-fire V8 engine, Mercedes 560SEL model 1990 and 1991 (2 engines, 2 harnesses, same specs, theoretically)
Trying to assemble the puzzle... As I understand (orig info "quoted")
- Ordered 2 kits from [Hendrik]
- "The only problem we had when we install the kit is idling."
- originally both were running (with 1 or 4 ignoutputs ? 4 ignoutputs correct ?)
- ignition was changed from EC36/pin36 to EC36/pin11 while the engine was running => ECU damaged
- The other engine was also running, but idle was not tuned
- tuning the idle can be done locally, not by sending the ECU to another continent.
Wiring
- [original harness.pdf] (the only thematical information received, might not be uptodate, see ignition and IAC. Anyway keep the pdf open while viewing this page )
- beware that IGN1 .. IGN8 numbering in this pdf is non-standard (subtract 1. The EC36/.. pin should be authoritive)
Uploaded [EFI kit photos]
- note: intake air pressuer.jpg seems like a CLT (coolant temperature sensor)
- does it go to EC36/pin14 ? (apparently that is also yellow, but please verify). Is CLT correct in logs ?
- measure resistance at know temperature
- is the sensor in the cylinder head, measuring head / coolant temp ? ( or in the intake manifold, measuring MAP ? unlikely)
- what made you think that it is "intake air" related
- or that it measures pressure ?
- who named the files, and who will fine-tune the engine ?
Ignition Firing order : ... ?
THE FIRING ORDER IS 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2
Note: All ignition wires lack fuses (there is only 1 10A fuse in the whole harness, zzz... Not good, must be added).
- "We did all the installation as Instructed but unfortunately while the engine was running the main 12v wire was shorted and the ecu burn"
- "We changed one of the ignitions outputs from 35 to 11 as Elbe instructed and run again but there was a smoke and one of chips was smoking and fire"
- "The other ecu it was a mistake changing the ignition while engine running"
- you mean "changing ignition output in config" while engine running ? Or changing the wiring somehow ? (usually difficult with EC36 plugged in, but who knows :-)
- was it reconfigured in the "ignition outputs" dialog that starts with red "Must not be changed with running engine" ?
- You made a video of the IGBT smoking (apparently the full event, from the beginning)... What is the history of that ? It almost seems like you were prepared for the smoke. Just curious
Originally as in the pdf, later Changed to ... (information from Waleed, no EC36/pin.. reference)
Red is +12V.
- EC36/35 (ignch0) Yellow (cylinders 1 and 6)
- changed from EC36/pin35 to EC36/pin11 (ignch4) while engine running ?
- EC36/33 (ignch1) Green (cylinders 5 and 3)
- EC36/34 (ignch2) White (cylinders 4 and 7)
- EC36/36 (ignch3) Blue (cylinders 8 and 2)
- EC36/36 trace burnt inside the ECU. Isn't it possible that EC36/36 was changed in config while engine was runing ?
- note to installers: using ignch0 and ignch1 will work with a VEMS ECU with 6 or 8 IGBTs, it is smarter to allocate ignch 2,3,6,7 so it could also work with just 4 IGBTs (GenBoard/Manual/IgnitionOutput).
Opel P/N - [1208065]
- these are 2x2 passive wasted spark ignition transformers (with 3-pin AMP connectors, suitable for inductive ignition, and quite rugged for the 25..45USD price, reliable, also easy to replace)
- so obviously 2 modules are used
- fuses should be used, 3A or 4A for each ignition output (4 ignfuses total). Change to 5A after engine is tuned, and all is well.
- dwell probably 3msec
- THE OPEL VAUXHALL IGNITION COILS ARE NOT AVAILABLE HERE. I USED FORD COILS. WILL FORD IGNITION COIL NEEDS THE SAME SETUP?
- yes, should be the same (almost all passive ignition transformers for inductive applications need similar drive, and mostly 3msec dwell. Some Jap coils work with shorter dwell; some old coils need slightly longer, eg. 3.5msec dwell; and some CDI coils are for capacitive ign only, and not suitable for inductive ignition with any dwell value )
IAC
Can you detail your Idle air control setup ?
Is it PWM type?
- Measure resistance,
- take note of partnumbers.
- Did it react to openloop changed during initial testing ?
THERE WAS NO IAC VALVE WITH THE KIT. THE RECOMMENDED ONE WAS TAKEN FROM BMW540.
Why are there so many IAC pins in the kit wiring pdf ?
- EC36/pin12 (ignch5) Brown for "M117 kit"
- EC36/pin24 (ignch6) (M117/M103 kit, but no color in the pdf). What does this mean ?
- What are the actual IAC pin from the ECU ?
- (of course the IAC also has a +12V side, hopefully through a 4..5A fuse)
Config
- [original vemscfg] (ignition should be compared to above)
- do you happen to have running vemslog ? (when tuning idle, it makes sense to capture vemslog for later analysis)
- any validation errors ?
- suspicious things ?
- recommendations ?
config review by Dave:
- m117 is v8, config is 8cyl but using 4 reftooth sites, 24-1. must be 24-1 on crank (camsync not configured) and using 2 ignition transformers (or 1 waster spark coil) per ign output.
- if so, they might be overloading the igbts (the document: elbe_efi_kit_wiring.pdf) seems to suggest wasted spark coils are used (M117), in that case the 2.8msec dwell should be okayish (not to high)
- some other small config stuff:
- simultaneous injection when cranking not recommended on 8cyl
- wheelspeed 1/2 when not using (not connected) set to both to 0
- idle control tps enable is set to 0% adjust to more reasonable 1-2% for proper activation/deactivation
- iac pwm frequency is not properly filled
- accel enrichment enrichments are quite high but might be good for such a big engine
- other than that config looks quite reasonable
Trigger
Primary trigger: EC36/pin27 VR
- VR 24-1 FLY WHEEL WITH FORD CRANK SENSOR.
- NO SECONDARY TRIGGER. Secondary trigger: (disabled)
Any triggerlog captured available for verification ?
Unrelated:
- see FileArea to upload image, vemslog or zip files