Please advise next course of action, measurements have been taken
MAT sensor/ecu measurements
MAT sensor = 485 Ohms at 18 Deg C. - perfect for factory PTC sensor
Voltage from blue wire with 1000ohm resistor was 3.39v
Voltage from blue wire with 500ohm resistor was 2.61v
Both measurements show that your internal pullup resistor is around 450 Ohm. (That is good for PTC, not 2k7 weak pullup). If the correct airden table (ptc 425/264 or around) is uploaded, it will work.
- What MAT value did the controller show during these 2 measurements ?
- What procedure do you use to upload firmware ? (did you try to reupload with your proven method, taking care of the chosen options ?)
- you can also verify (without uploading) airden and MAT table with ANY firmware and ANY coolant table file. Just select proper airden table.
- Verification error on page 1-2 means difference. No error on page 1-2 means the airden and MAT table uploaded to firmware is same as the file.
- page 3 means coolant table, but we don't care about that now
- page 4-.... means different firmware
Now just need to fix MAT sensor.... why is it stuck on 97-100 degrees C in winter? OEM Audi PTC sensor, and recommended PTC 425 file loaded into ecu with VemsTune. Any ideas???
- found this:MAT sensor
- That is my problem, we either get 100 Deg C or 18 Deg C.
- under what CONDITIONS (sensor resistance, input voltage) ?
- See top of this page for measurements
- 100C suggests either PTC table and too high sensor resistance (disconnected ? 5V input)
- or NTC table and too low sensor resistance 400..500 Ohm PTC, or 0 Ohm (input pulled to ground)
- 18C suggests NTC table uploaded, with 450 Ohm (or around) sensor resistance
To tell what's happening ...
The following steps needed for audi PTC:
- strong (430 Ohm) pullup resistor internally (usually 510 Ohm on top of 2k7)
- not 2700 Ohm as for NTC
- You can (and in case of any issue, this is essential) measure resistance of your MAT sensor (eg. 500 Ohm at +25C when disconnected), and measure the voltage on MAT input with 2 different resistors toward GND (eg. 1k and 500 Ohm). Without measuring voltages, we cannot tell if the problem is outside (different sensor than believed) or inside (wrong pullup or table)
- choose ptc425_264 (or around) patchfile (airden table)
- not 2063_256 as for NTC MAT
- it is possible to use special MAT airden table even with the audi PTC and 2k7 pullup, but more sensitive to calibration.
If any of the steps is neglected, we will not know what's happening.
FIXED - Shift-Cut was inputting noise to ecu?
- ECU #1883 installed and running. Problem found with configuration(sec_trigger is now set to "25" in decimal)
- Problem: Injector PW drops to zero, the same as before
- Overrun_fuelcut = 18 KPA, overboost_fuelcut set to ~226 kpa.
- PW drops to zero at normal kpa of 40-90
- Datalog seconds: 193,225,231,286,291,305,355,363,420,439,462 etc.
- Note proper decel fuelcut at 379 and 444 seconds.
- '''Datalog link: http://cid-0faf7a105daa4e3e.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/datalog200902061943.xls
CONFIG:
- CurrentTime: 2009-02-06 15:06:42
- Version: 1.1.27
- SerialNumber: v3.3_n001883
- CompilationTime: Mon Sep 3 15:10:58 CEST 2007
- Signature: VEMS v1.1 12x12 kpa=2,2
primep=00
primep_temp_scaling=33
cwl=2D
cwh=14
cranking_thres=03
awev=6E
awev_temp_scaling=4D
awec=11
warmup_clt_range[0]=1C
warmup_clt_range[1]=48
warmup_clt_range[2]=6C
warmup_clt_range[3]=90
warmup_clt_range[4]=A2
warmup_clt_range[5]=B4
warmup_clt_range[6]=C6
warmup_clt_range[7]=D8
warmup_clt_range[8]=EA
warmup_clt_range[9]=FC
warmup_clt[0]=C8
warmup_clt[1]=A0
warmup_clt[2]=82
warmup_clt[3]=73
warmup_clt[4]=6E
warmup_clt[5]=69
warmup_clt[6]=66
warmup_clt[7]=64
warmup_clt[8]=68
warmup_clt[9]=64
warmup_rpm_scale=A8
req_fuel=37
divider=01
alternate=14
injopen=00
battfac=22
kpafac=D0
kpaoffs=90
injocfuel=19
injrampup_battfac=FF
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=FF
als_launch_input=0E
rpmk[0]=09
rpmk[1]=60
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=00
tpsdotrate[0]=04
tpsdotrate[1]=07
tpsdotrate[2]=0F
tpsdotrate[3]=1A
tpsaq[0]=07
tpsaq[1]=09
tpsaq[2]=0E
tpsaq[3]=14
als_cut_mintps=FF
tpsasync=03
acmult=6E
tpsacold=14
launch_enrich=00
launch_retard=28
overrun_fuelcut=63
overrun_fuelresume=62
rev_limit=4A
airden_ignore=62
config11=41
config12=40
config13=02
batt_cal=C6
fastidle=C6
als_max_cut=00
dbaro=04
tps_low=0B
tps_high=EA
fan_temp=EA
fan_hyst=04
fan_channel=FF
iac_step_seq=D8
iac_conf=58
iac_max_steps=FF
iac_tps_thres=05
iac_cold_idle_temp=63
iac_warm_idle_temp=B4
iac_cold_rpm=69
iac_warm_rpm=5A
iac_cold_start_pos=FF
iac_warm_start_pos=80
iac_afterstart_rpm=0A
iac_afterstart_duration=19
iac_speed=00
iac_kp=00
iac_ki=30
iac_kd=19
launch_rpm=32
iac_integral_limit_dec=32
iac_integral_limit_inc=0A
iac_integral_deadband=1B
iac_deadband=0A
als_cut_maxtps=FF
iac_overclose_interval=FF
iac_ref_pos[0]=BF
iac_ref_pos[1]=BA
iac_ref_pos[2]=AD
iac_ref_pos[3]=A8
iac_ref_pos[4]=A1
iac_ref_pos[5]=99
iac_ref_pos[6]=91
iac_ref_pos[7]=87
iac_ref_pos[8]=7D
iac_ref_pos[9]=7A
iac_sol_channel=60
iac_ign_slope=60
softrpm_range=0D
iac_ign_advance_limit=08
iac_ign_retard_limit=18
iac_ign_threshold=0A
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=04
ego_coolant=B4
ego_maxtps=E6
ego_maxmap=3F
ego_minrpm=0C
ego_maxrpm=28
ego_warmup=14
ego_lean_limit=00
ego_rich_limit=00
ego_pid_kp=1E
als_enrich=00
ego_delta=00
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=01
wbo2_warmup_ramp=FF
als_react_tps=FF
wbo2_abs_limit=E0
wbo2_limit_maxt=F0
wbo2_fallback=70
wbo2_retry_t=06
als_retard_rpm1=FF
als_retard_rpm2=FF
wbo2_ri_target=A5
wbo2_nernstdc_target=88
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=63
wbo2_calibration=B4
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=45
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=11
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=4E
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=FF
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_chan=F0
knock_sampling_window=F2
knock1_frequency=29
knock1_gain=0E
knock1_integrator=14
knock2_frequency=29
knock2_gain=00
knock2_integrator=00
knock_threshold=0A
knock_noise_scale=D8
knock_max_retard=00
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=04
knock_retard_delay=30
knock_advance_step=01
knock_advance_delay=50
knock_minrpm=16
knock_maxrpm=42
ve_learn_coolant=CF
ve_learn_max_power=64
ve_learn_rpm_scale=28
ve_learn_kpa_scale=28
ve_learn_ego_scale=50
ve_learn_min_weight=14
ve_learn_speed=32
ve_learn_limit=80
ve_learn_conf=00
lcd_c0=FE
lcd_delay=42
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=22
als_igncut_rpm2=FF
als_retard_mintps=FF
als_retard_maxtps=FF
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=43
secondary_trigger=19
tooth_wheel=5A
trigger_tooth=00
another_trigger_tooth=12
crank_minper=A3
tooth_wheel_twidth1=20
tooth_wheel_twidth2=00
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=00
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=00
reset_engphase_after=40
ign_tdcdelay=74
ign_dwell14=2B
ign_dwell6=00
ign_crank_advance=28
ign_out=70
ignchmax=04
engine_off_delay=02
pump_on_mintime=04
fuelpump_channel=50
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FF
als_igncut_rpm1=FF
als_deact_time=00
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=00
als_rev_limit=63
misc1out_minrpm=FF
misc1out_maxrpm=FF
misc1out_mintps=FF
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=FF
misc1out_maxmap=FF
misc1out_channel=FF
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=FF
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=FF
misc2out_maxmap=FF
misc2out_channel=FF
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=FF
act_rpm_rpm=FF
act_rpm_channel=FF
egt1_cal=55
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=FF
boost_targetoffs=00
boost_minpressure=3A
boost_pid_kp=84
boost_pid_ki=4B
boost_pid_kd=2C
boost_pid_ilimit=64
boost_channel=70
water_pump_temp=00
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=7E
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=76
toothrel_missing=00
fuelcut_min_kpa=09
fuelcut_max_kpa=71
tach_channel=07
tach_div=10
shiftcut_conf=13
shiftcut_channel=07
shiftcut_time=32
softrpm_rpm=48
- CurrentTime: 2009-02-06 15:06:50
- Version: 1.1.27
- SerialNumber: v3.3_n001883
- CompilationTime: Mon Sep 3 15:10:58 CEST 2007
- Signature: VEMS v1.1 12x12 kpa=2,2
j[0]=5F80 5E80 6180 6980 6E80 7580 7980 7F80 7F80 7D80 7B80 7980
j[1]=6580 6680 6780 6E80 7380 7880 7D80 8280 8280 8080 7E80 7C80
j[2]=6A80 6C80 6E80 7580 7E80 8480 8780 8A80 8A80 8880 8680 8480
j[3]=7380 7880 7880 7B80 8580 8880 8B80 8E80 8E80 8C80 8A80 8880
j[4]=7D80 7D80 7D80 8280 8780 8C80 8E80 9080 9080 8E80 8C80 8A80
j[5]=8780 8780 8980 8B80 8D80 8F80 9180 9280 9280 9080 8F80 8C80
j[6]=9180 9180 9280 9280 9380 9480 9680 9780 9780 9580 9380 9180
j[7]=9280 9480 9480 9680 9780 9980 9B80 9C80 9C80 9A80 9880 9680
j[8]=9580 9780 9A80 9B80 9C80 9E80 A080 A180 A180 9F80 9D80 9B80
j[9]=9D80 9F80 A180 A580 A880 AB80 AE80 B180 B180 AF80 AD80 AB80
j[A]=AF80 B180 B380 B680 B980 BC80 BF80 C380 C380 BF80 BC80 B980
j[B]=B280 B480 B680 BB80 C180 C480 C780 CB80 CB80 C680 C080 BA80
l[0]=37 37 37 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34
l[1]=37 37 37 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34
l[2]=37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37
l[3]=44 44 44 44 47 48 48 48 48 48 48 48
l[4]=5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E
l[5]=73 73 73 73 73 7B 7B 7B 7B 7B 75 73
l[6]=7B 7B 7B 7B 7B 83 83 83 7E 7B 7B 7B
l[7]=7B 7B 7B 7B 7B 83 83 83 83 7E 7E 7E
l[8]=7E 7E 7E 7E 7E 83 83 83 83 83 83 83
l[9]=7E 7E 7E 7E 7E 87 87 87 87 87 83 83
l[A]=7E 7E 7E 7E 7E 87 87 87 87 87 87 83
l[B]=7E 7E 7E 7E 7E 87 87 87 87 87 87 87
n[0]=3C 48 5C 74 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C
n[1]=3C 48 5C 70 98 98 98 98 98 98 98 98
n[2]=3C 44 58 6C 8C 8C 8C 8C 8C 8C 8C 8C
n[3]=3C 40 54 68 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
n[4]=38 3C 50 64 78 78 78 78 78 78 78 78
n[5]=34 3C 50 5A 5C 58 54 54 58 5C 5C 5C
n[6]=30 3C 50 50 50 4C 48 48 4C 50 50 50
n[7]=2C 3C 4B 46 44 40 3C 3C 40 44 44 44
n[8]=28 3C 46 41 3C 38 34 34 38 3C 3C 3C
n[9]=28 3C 41 3C 38 34 30 30 34 38 3C 3C
n[A]=28 3C 41 3C 34 30 2C 2C 30 34 38 3C
n[B]=28 3C 41 3C 30 2C 28 28 2C 30 34 34
k[0]=0D 0F 19 26 32 4B 58 64 71 7D 8A 96
r[0]=09 0F 14 1A 20 26 2C 32 38 3E 44 4A
h[0]=01 02 04 08 10 20 40 80
h[1]=00 48 36 24 12 00 00 00
h[2]=10 70 60 30 20 30 40 50
y[0]=FF FF FF BF 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
y[1]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[2]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[3]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[4]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[5]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[6]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[7]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[8]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[9]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[A]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
y[B]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
The pinout of the new ECU
- Order: 2787
- Board ID: 1883
10 - brown
24 - black
33 - blue
34 - red
36 - blue(with duck tape)
Two input:
thin blue mcp3208 ch 6 (pulled up to 5V)
thin gray mcp3208 ch 7 (pulled up to 5V)
OLDER
First ECU #2016:
Last Config Dumps
http://www.vems.hu/files/KevinBlack/CGconfigdownload122608.txt
- ECU (still) resetting causing big hesitations in engine
http://www.vems.hu/files/KevinBlack/Cg%20Drive%201.xls
- customer reports that the tach "jumps up" when the hesitations occur
Please post uptodate config dump so it can be examined for output-collisions or other potential configuration problem.
I think after harness tests we should send you replacement ECU to see if it behaves (should also be tried with same config).
The config dump is extremely important, the first step of the procedure.
If the replacement ECU fixes it we'll have to dump config from that too and compare to find out.
- '''Thanks, the config dump was linked below, here it is:
- Older config dumps below - secondary trigger was "disabled" in MT(fixed)
11/19/08
- stuck in bootloader modeSOLVED, edited "upload-firmware.bat" and used PSI Tuner to reload the firmware
- USB-Serial adapter (of course)
- We are using the newest VEMSTune 10-20, and uploaded firmware 1.1.27, along with PTC 2460_425 and 2063_256 files.
- The firmware started to upload and then stopped, and displayed error windows about the bootloader mode or whatever. Now the ecu wont connect in MT or VEMSTune.
- I had him bridge serial port 2-3 with the ECU OFF, then turn the ECU ON, did this a few times. (not needed if it starts in bootloader anyway. Wont hurt either)
- We tried turning the ECU OFF (before uploading again) after bridging the pins, was this wrong?
- no problem at all
- I cant get anything to work now. Any ideas?
- try with megaloader (see the batch file in the MegaTune releases) or prog.pl
- we didn't experience that in the lab, but occasionally hearing about similar cases. Autronic manual states that you have to disable buffers (emil_ a friend of mine tried 3 different usb-rs232 and still fails). Disable buffers in device manager, find the port, properties, port settings, advanced
11/18/08 - Engine is running. I had to rotate the ignition outputs.
NEW Order: h[2]=10 76 60 30 20 50 50 50
'''In MT = 2-3-6-7-1 (bottom to top)
OLD Order: h[2]=76 60 30 20 10 50 50 50
'''In MT = 1-2-3-6-7 (bottom to top)
'''I assume this is because of the secondary trigger placement.
Can someone check the rest of the config to make sure it is correct for a 3B engine?'''
OLD dumps below - secondary trigger was "disabled" in MT(fixed)
http://www.vems.hu/files/KevinBlack/CGFinalBaseDump.rtf
Primary Trigger Settings, note no "crankminper" setting, does this explain the trigger error? (should be ~2600 for 8000+100 rpm limit)
- What about the "Nissan Trigger enabled?
Ignition Configuration / Wiring, 5 IGBT Outputs
IGN Output - EC36 - Color - Cylinder
10 - 33 - Blue(Tape) - Cyl 1
20 - 34 - Black - Cyl 2
30 - 36 - Brown - Cyl 4
60 - 24 - Red - Cyl 5
70 - 10 - Blue - Cyl 3
Firing Order 1-2-4-5-3
Car Information:
- 1991 Audi 200 20vtq,(3B)
- Stock injectors, 3.5 bar fuel pressure
- 5 individual 12V power coils
ECU information
- Webshop assembled Serial # 2016
- 1.1.27 Firmware
- Marcell config and tables for 3B
- Megatune 1.1.23 and or V3GUI for tuning
Questions:
- Does 3B Engine need crankhome wires reversed?
- yes
- Done - Black crank-home connector Pin1=Red to ECU 48, Pin 2=Violet to ECU 49
- yes
- What is Cam Hall inversion?
- a small (NPN) inverter inside the box makes low/hi from hi/low input (on EC36/13)
- Need to check config (Marcells config shows 90 tooth for trigger? I thought it is 135 tooth?)
- actually 270 tooth, so 90 because of the divby3
- Need to verify all trigger functions - shipping this ecu to a customer
- you can use soundcard, left channel to EC36/27, right channel to EC18/12. Use c270 trigger
- Need documentation about how P259, INJ, etc. is wired to Motronic55 connector
- See the 3B column in the spreadsheet. http://vems.hu/download/v3/Motronic55/motronic-AAN-ECxx.xls
- also see the functions in the config. Eg p259/0 (ec36/4) is tach out.
- also keep track of what you ordered. The SSC6 pinout can vary according to customer request (pins can be analog input, or ignout logiclevel/power ign out, or gnd)
Requested Configuration
MAP connection 400kPa onboard - brass nipple
Flyback - 30v Diode
LCD - Connector through endplate (DSUB9 on endplate or flying loom)
EGT - Flying Loom through endplate
Knock - Via Motronic55 Pins
IAT - Audi PTC Sensor (430 Ohm pull-up)
Ignition Configuration, 5 IGBT Outputs
IGN Output - EC36 - Color - Cylinder
10 - 33 - Blue(Tape) - Cyl 1
20 - 34 - Black - Cyl 2
30 - 36 - Brown - Cyl 4
60 - 24 - Red - Cyl 5
70 - 10 - Blue - Cyl 3
Firing Order 1-2-4-5-3
2 Analog Inputs, custom connector
- Red (Analog 7) 8,400 Ohms to Pin 12 5V
- Blue(Analog 6) 8,400 Ohms to Pin 12 5V
Launch Control and Shift Cut Setup
- How do I wire and set-up the Launch/Shift as described below?
As you see, the "AAN ECU extra connector pins" has 3 analog inputs, we use one brake-light switch mounted under clutch (and a series switch that can disable it) to pull down (activate) the (shared) input for shiftcut and launch.
When activated with TPS < iac_tps_threshold launch is activated (TPS can be pressed after activation). Otherwise shiftcut is activated.
WBO2 Configuration
SSC Pin - Flying Lead - WB02 Pin
- 1,black Nernst,WBO2 Pin 1
- 2,White +12V (motronic pin27) 3
- 3,Grey Heater(-),WBO2 Pin 4
- 4,transparent Pump(-),WBO2 Pin 5
- 5,thin red Pump(+),WBO2 Pin 6
Suggestion - make WBO2 wire colors match the LSU4.2 sensor
SSC - Color - WBO2 Pin
- 1 - Black - 1
- 2 - Grey - 3
- 3 - White - 4
- 4 - Yellow - 5
- 5 - Red - 6
General Audi Information
Pic of ECU Connector:
3B Wiring Pinout:
http://www.s2central.net/motronic_pinout_3B.html
3B Wiring Schematic:
Audi 3B Information:
http://www.s2central.net/motronic_02.html
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/20vboost.html