I've fitted a 20V 4AGE in my AE86 so now I've got to get it running using VEMS. I'm close to have the diagram for the harness done but I'm not quite sure how to run the trigger.
I would like to use the sensors in the distributer. It's got three sensors:
- primary trigger is 24 camteeth
- secondary trigger is one camtooth.
- actually 2 different sensors positioned 180 (crank-?)degrees apart sense the same campulse. You only need one of those sensors. We call this arrangement 24+1 (not 12-1 as no missing tooth !)
I'll try making it work with the 24+1 setup first. If this fails I'll go 36-1.
//PhatBob - the Toyota trigger is terribly noisy and you'll have to do a lot of messing with the triggering circuits to even come close. We use these:
You should be able to get it work on 24+1 (eg. 1.1.27 firmware), it's by far the most frequently used from the InputTrigger/MultiToothNoneMissing family. Just beware of polarity if VR (or the edge if HALL - iirc it is VR) and measure signal DC bias when connected to VR trigger input and ignition on (and take note).
Someone chose hw swap and installed 36-1 on a 16V (maybe it was before 2007, or he just likes the more precise timing from crank? If wheel is made in smallworkshop, 12-1 cranktooth with HALL sensor recommended):
images taken from http://www.autosportlabs.net
===================================
Or talk to Gintsk, scroll down and you'll see:
Toyota AE 86. GT25 bb turbo. Fully sequencial on stock 24+1 VR sensors. Active COPs from VAG driven from stepper chip. For drift.
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGintsK%2FSuccess
GintsK: I use 24 and 4 distributor with 3 teeth cutted. So it is 24+1 setup. I checked polarity only for camsync signal. Polarity was right.
JanPedersen: I've decided to try this out but I'm not quite sure how to set it up.
- InputTrigger/MultiToothNoneMissing has tested 24+1 example
- The secondary trigger is 90 degress before TDC on the cam.
- this seems to be a very good position. In any case, verify that the secondary trigger pulse is between 2 primary trigger pulses (not too close. Recommended distance: minimim 10 crankdegrees)
- The wheel has two pick ups and I got the best signal using the other one which is 90 degrees after TDC on the cam. Can I use that one instead?
- this seems to be a very good position. In any case, verify that the secondary trigger pulse is between 2 primary trigger pulses (not too close. Recommended distance: minimim 10 crankdegrees)
Anyway smarter is to use disc on crankshaft. It is more precise and no need for readjusting after any mechanical manipulation on engine.
But. Your 36-1 probably will not work because of two reasons:
- missing gap is too deep. It cause problems with VR sensor reading. http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=InputTrigger%2FRunOut You can still try use Hall sender instead VR.
- your sensor holder is too weak. Holder should be massive as possible to prevent any resonance. Resonance can cause false signals on sensor output. If hit with wrench on holder you should not see any movement or hear any sound from holder. It should be like engine block. GintsK
---
I can't get the trigger to work. I know that the distributor generates a signal, the wires are ok, so that leaves the vems. I followed Peters guide: http://www.au2stereo.dk/vems_installation.pdf
I tried to test the the primary trigger using a 9v battery but still nothing. Any suggestions? Any common problems on the vems board?
FAULT FOUND!
Next problem: No matter how I set it up I get a steady 1500 rpm while cranking which seems quite high. I tried using a single trigger setup to se if that canged anything but I stil got 1500 rpm using a 24 teeth and the program set up to four?!? Then I changed the program to 24 teeth and still no change... WTF!
---
I was told to try another firmware to get my trigger to work. But which one should I go for? 1.1.27 but I can only find it in two beta versions, that I can't get to work. They load allright but trigger isn't working no matter how I try to set it up...
So if someone could guide me to a good firmware and a working config - just to test the triggersetup - i would really appriciate it! At this point I'm getting quite frustrated
- I started reviewing board schematics and the guide I followed seems to be wrong. In this: http://www.vems.hu/files/genboardv3/assembly/vems_v3_documentation.pdf it says that I have to short SJ7 (page 16). But if I do so the input signal connects to the output pin on the trigger IC (LM1815) http://www.vems.hu/files/genboardv3/v3.3/v33_sch.pdf
A: For secondary trigger (cam pulse) VEMS use two separate inputs (different connector pins) for Hall and VR sensors.
So it is not a problem. GintsK
Secundary trigger is now working. Seems quite good as it pics up quite small signals. It calculates the engine speed to a steady 250 rpm while cranking. But now it fires quite crazy, not 180 degrees apart like you would think. Pattern looks like this:
Its the same pattern every time so I don't think its due to a noisy trigger.
I was told to use firmware 1.1.27 as it supports N+1, so I tried that first. But its stated that N<=11 so this wouldn't work I guess. I then tried 1.0.73, 1.1.18, 1.1.41 and 1.1.44. None of these altered the result. Anybody has a running car using 24+1? If so which firmware?!? And I would love to se your config and tables! Anyways this is my config and tables - does this look right:
primep=0A
primep_temp_scaling=4D
cwl=96
cwh=28
cranking_thres=03
awev=08
awev_temp_scaling=4D
awec=00
shiftcut_potlow=00
shiftcut_pothi=FF
shiftcut_retcut=00
boost_matdec=FC
boost_egtdec=FF
iacref_matslope=65
shiftcut_minrpm=FF
blabla[0]=8C
blabla[1]=AA
blabla[2]=C8
warmup_clt[0]=DC
warmup_clt[1]=D2
warmup_clt[2]=C8
warmup_clt[3]=BE
warmup_clt[4]=B4
warmup_clt[5]=AA
warmup_clt[6]=A0
warmup_clt[7]=96
warmup_clt[8]=78
warmup_clt[9]=67
warmup_rpm_scale=E0
req_fuel=19
divider=01
alternate=03
injopen=00
battfac=9C
kpafac=D7
kpaoffs=80
injocfuel=2A
injrampup_battfac=13
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=FF
als_launch_input=67
rpmk[0]=0B
rpmk[1]=B8
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=00
tpsdotrate[0]=05
tpsdotrate[1]=14
tpsdotrate[2]=32
tpsdotrate[3]=64
tpsaq[0]=01
tpsaq[1]=01
tpsaq[2]=01
tpsaq[3]=01
als_cut_mintps=FF
tpsasync=01
acmult=8C
tpsacold=0A
launch_enrich=1A
launch_retard=78
overrun_fuelcut=64
overrun_fuelresume=64
rev_limit=FF
airden_ignore=60
config11=31
config12=40
config13=1A
batt_cal=C0
iac2load=6C
als_max_cut=00
dbaro=0C
tps_low=41
tps_high=78
fan_temp=EA
fan_hyst=05
fan_channel=52
iac_step_seq=C9
iac_conf=48
iac_max_steps=FF
iac_tps_thres=03
iac_cold_idle_temp=B4
iac_warm_idle_temp=A2
iac_cold_rpm=82
iac_warm_rpm=64
iac_cold_start_pos=80
iac_warm_start_pos=73
iac_afterstart_rpm=00
iac_afterstart_duration=C8
iac_speed=04
iac_kp=14
iac_ki=0B
iac_kd=16
launch_rpm=19
iac_integral_limit_dec=0A
iac_integral_limit_inc=1E
iac_integral_deadband=03
iac_deadband=03
als_cut_maxtps=00
confswitch=00
iac_ref_pos[0]=99
iac_ref_pos[1]=97
iac_ref_pos[2]=94
iac_ref_pos[3]=8F
iac_ref_pos[4]=87
iac_ref_pos[5]=78
iac_ref_pos[6]=75
iac_ref_pos[7]=75
iac_ref_pos[8]=75
iac_ref_pos[9]=73
iac_sol_channel=5F
iac_ign_slope=3C
softrpm_range=32
iac_ign_advance_limit=0E
iac_ign_retard_limit=14
iac_ign_threshold=04
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=01
ego_coolant=00
ego_maxtps=FF
ego_maxmap=FF
ego_minrpm=06
ego_maxrpm=FF
ego_warmup=00
ego_lean_limit=0A
ego_rich_limit=08
ego_pid_kp=40
als_enrich=00
ego_delta=03
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=FF
wbo2_warmup_ramp=A0
als_react_tps=00
wbo2_abs_limit=E4
wbo2_limit_maxt=A0
wbo2_fallback=B0
wbo2_retry_t=06
als_retard_rpm1=BA
als_retard_rpm2=50
wbo2_ri_target=96
wbo2_nernstdc_target=86
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=64
wbo2_calibration=C0
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=46
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=10
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=4E
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=84
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_chan=F0
knock_sampling_window=B2
knock1_frequency=20
knock1_gain=00
knock1_integrator=12
knock2_frequency=3B
knock2_gain=3F
knock2_integrator=0A
knock_threshold=00
knock_noise_scale=00
knock_max_retard=00
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=00
knock_retard_delay=00
knock_advance_step=00
knock_advance_delay=00
knock_minrpm=FF
knock_maxrpm=FF
ve_learn_coolant=E1
ve_learn_max_power=FF
ve_learn_rpm_scale=30
ve_learn_kpa_scale=30
ve_learn_ego_scale=50
ve_learn_min_weight=50
ve_learn_speed=FF
ve_learn_limit=E6
ve_learn_conf=00
lcd_c0=C8
lcd_delay=FF
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=22
als_igncut_rpm2=28
als_retard_mintps=FF
als_retard_maxtps=FF
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=13
secondary_trigger=1D
tooth_wheel=18
trigger_tooth=03
another_trigger_tooth=06
crank_minper=13
tooth_wheel_twidth1=78
tooth_wheel_twidth2=00
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=33
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=46
reset_engphase_after=40
ign_tdcdelay=64
ign_dwell14=19
ign_dwellmap=01
ign_crank_advance=28
ign_out=70
ignchmax=03
engine_off_delay=04
pump_on_mintime=0B
fuelpump_channel=70
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FF
als_igncut_rpm1=FF
als_deact_time=00
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=00
als_rev_limit=1A
misc1out_minrpm=01
misc1out_maxrpm=FF
misc1out_mintps=FF
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=80
misc1out_maxmap=80
misc1out_channel=FF
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=FF
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=80
misc2out_maxmap=80
misc2out_channel=FF
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=FF
act_rpm_rpm=1E
act_rpm_channel=72
egt1_cal=4A
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=00
boost_targetoffs=00
boost_minpressure=FF
boost_pid_kp=20
boost_pid_ki=80
boost_pid_kd=01
boost_pid_ilimit=FF
boost_channel=FF
water_pump_temp=00
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=00
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=15
toothrel_missing=7F
fuelcut_min_kpa=09
fuelcut_max_kpa=96
tach_channel=62
tach_div=10
shiftcut_conf_input=88
shiftcut_tpsthresh=FF
shiftcut_time=00
softrpm_rpm=4A
n2o_mintps=80
n2o_minrpm=FF
n2o_maxrpm=FF
n2o_retard=00
n2o_minkpa=40
n2o_maxkpa=0A
n2o_input=80
n2o_output_channel=FF
n2o_settings=83
launch_out_channel=FF
launch_out_delay=80
launch_out_pwmlow=1A
launch_out_pwmhigh=80
launch_out_pwmramp=21
launch_out_ontime=80
launch_out_conf=21
boostsw_conf=00
boostgauge_channel=8F
boostgauge_offset=31
boostgauge_mul=80
map_filter=04
speed_sensor=80
gears[0]=42
gears[1]=80
gears[2]=3A
gears[3]=80
gears[4]=3A
gears[5]=80
boost_mult[0]=42
boost_mult[1]=80
boost_mult[2]=42
boost_mult[3]=80
boost_mult[4]=40
inj_mult_trim[0]=80
inj_mult_trim[1]=80
inj_mult_trim[2]=80
inj_mult_trim[3]=80
inj_mult_trim[4]=80
inj_mult_trim[5]=80
inj_mult_trim[6]=80
inj_mult_trim[7]=80
iac_conf2=80
warning_rpm=21
warning_kpa=40
warning_conf=21
warning_adc_value=80
warning_egt=21
warning_afr=80
warning_clt=1E
warning_channel=FF
injection_angle=00
boost_tps_dc_scale=80
n2o_mingear=38
misc1out_conditions=00
misc1out_condition1=37
misc1out_condition2=80
misc2out_conditions=40
misc2out_condition1=80
misc2out_condition2=45
knock_gain[0]=80
knock_gain[1]=48
knock_gain[2]=80
knock_gain[3]=46
knock_gain[4]=80
knock_gain[5]=48
knock_gain[6]=80
knock_gain[7]=51
knock_reference[0]=80
knock_reference[1]=53
knock_reference[2]=80
knock_reference[3]=30
knock_reference[4]=80
knock_reference[5]=34
knock_reference[6]=80
knock_reference[7]=32
knock_calibration_min=80
knock_calibration_max=34
inj_add_trim[0]=03
inj_add_trim[1]=03
inj_add_trim[2]=03
inj_add_trim[3]=03
inj_add_trim[4]=03
inj_add_trim[5]=03
inj_add_trim[6]=03
inj_add_trim[7]=03
inj_deadtime[0]=00
inj_deadtime[1]=00
inj_deadtime[2]=00
inj_deadtime[3]=00
inj_deadtime[4]=00
inj_deadtime[5]=00
inj_deadtime[6]=00
inj_deadtime[7]=00
inj_deadtime[8]=00
inj_deadtime[9]=00
acc_coeff_cold=72
acc_coeff_warm=63
acc_fadeout_rate1=33
acc_fadeout_rate2=33
acc_tps_deadband=03
dec_coeff_cold=63
dec_coeff_warm=6A
dec_fadeout_rate1=33
dec_fadeout_rate2=36
dec_tps_deadband=03
film_coeff_cold=7A
film_coeff_warm=63
film_rate=A4
film_scale=42
film_rpm_scale=80
j[0]=3280 3480 3A80 3E80 4080 3F80 4180 4280 4780 4A80 4B80 4A80 4880 4680 4380 4280
j[1]=3380 3A80 4080 4580 4580 4480 4480 4680 4A80 4E80 4F80 4E80 4B80 4880 4580 4580
j[2]=3680 3D80 4580 4A80 4B80 4A80 4880 4B80 4F80 5280 5280 5180 4E80 4A80 4980 4780
j[3]=3C80 4180 4980 4E80 5080 5080 4D80 4E80 5180 5380 5380 5280 4F80 4C80 4A80 4880
j[4]=3F80 4680 4D80 5080 5180 4F80 4F80 4F80 5280 5480 5480 5380 5080 4C80 4B80 4980
j[5]=4380 4A80 5080 5180 5280 5080 4E80 4F80 5380 5580 5580 5480 5180 4D80 4B80 4980
j[6]=4880 4E80 5180 5380 5280 4E80 4F80 5080 5480 5680 5680 5580 5180 4E80 4C80 4A80
j[7]=4D80 5180 5280 5380 5180 4E80 4F80 5080 5580 5780 5780 5680 5180 4E80 4D80 4B80
j[8]=5180 5480 5280 5280 5280 5080 5180 5280 5680 5880 5880 5780 5280 4F80 4D80 4B80
j[9]=5380 5480 5280 5280 5280 5180 5280 5280 5780 5980 5980 5880 5280 4F80 4D80 4B80
j[A]=5480 5680 5480 5380 5380 5180 5180 5280 5780 5980 5980 5880 5280 4F80 4D80 4B80
j[B]=5480 5480 5380 5380 5380 5180 5180 5280 5880 5A80 5A80 5980 5380 5080 4D80 4B80
j[C]=5480 5380 5280 5280 5080 4F80 5080 5280 5880 5A80 5A80 5980 5380 5080 4D80 4B80
j[D]=5480 5380 5280 5280 5080 4F80 5080 5280 5880 5A80 5A80 5980 5380 5080 4D80 4B80
l[0]=37 2D 2D 2D 2D 32 37 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 55 55 55 55
l[1]=37 34 2D 2D 32 34 37 3D 3D 3D 3D 55 55 55 55 55
l[2]=37 37 34 34 36 37 37 3D 3D 3D 55 55 55 55 55 55
l[3]=37 37 37 37 37 39 3B 3D 3D 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
l[4]=37 37 37 37 37 39 3B 3D 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
l[5]=37 37 37 37 37 3B 3D 48 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
l[6]=37 37 37 3B 3B 43 47 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
l[7]=3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 44 4D 63 63 63 63 63 66 66 66 66
l[8]=44 44 44 44 47 51 5C 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
l[9]=4F 4F 4F 51 55 5A 63 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
l[A]=55 55 55 55 5C 61 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
l[B]=55 55 55 55 5C 61 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
l[C]=55 55 55 55 5C 61 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
l[D]=55 55 55 55 5C 61 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
n[0]=28 28 28 3D 4D 64 74 7A 7D 7F 7F 7F 80 80 80 80
n[1]=28 28 28 3D 4D 64 73 7A 7D 7F 7F 7F 80 80 80 80
n[2]=28 28 28 3D 4D 63 71 78 7D 7F 7F 7F 80 80 80 80
n[3]=28 28 28 3C 4C 61 6F 77 7B 7E 7F 80 83 83 83 83
n[4]=28 28 28 44 57 60 74 7D 82 84 84 84 87 87 87 87
n[5]=35 3B 44 56 60 7D 81 82 84 82 84 84 87 87 87 87
n[6]=35 3B 55 5C 66 7E 85 83 84 86 85 87 87 87 87 87
n[7]=46 59 59 5D 6E 7F 85 88 8A 8A 89 88 87 87 87 87
n[8]=50 50 50 50 69 7E 83 88 89 89 89 89 87 87 87 87
n[9]=50 50 50 55 5F 88 88 88 8C 8C 8C 8C 87 87 87 87
n[A]=41 46 46 4C 50 78 78 78 78 7C 7C 7C 87 87 87 87
n[B]=52 5E 62 7F 7E 7D 7D 7D 81 81 85 85 87 87 87 87
n[C]=5F 67 6B 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87
n[D]=5F 67 6B 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87 87
k[0]=00 14 28 3C 50 64 78 8C A0 B4 C8 DC F0 FF
r[0]=06 0A 10 16 1C 22 28 2D 34 3A 3F 44 49 4E 54 5A
h[0]=01 02 08 04 01 02 08 04
h[1]=00 08 06 04 02 00 00 00
h[2]=00 10 30 20 00 10 30 20