About this page
This page covers the installation of a GenBoard/VerThree into a Daihatsu Charade GTti wich is a 3cyl 12valve Turbo car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Charade
2011-03-23
Problem exists,
Last night reviewd the trigger setup.
To getter a better error free trigger is essential for rulling out trigger errors as a cause of the injector problems.
- fitted 2x10n capacitors at D14 and D17
- Changed the factory fitted 103(10k) for a 102(1k) resistor no trigger. Changed both to 2k7, no trigger, went upwards 183(18k) amazing a error free trigger till 4000rpm then errors come in till 7000rpm when ecu trips. This can be caused by the PC soundcard wich is AC i dont know.
- Next r154 and all parts between r154,avr and FEt driver.
2011-03-22
Problem still exists,
Injectors not firing at right speed and only one firing with camsync.
- camsync off all injectors fire sequential but not at right speed. I calculated evry 0.3sec there should be a injection event but it takes more then a second between events.
- RPM in VT goes to 2000rpm when camsync is turned off.
- camsync on, only one injector is fireing, the last one on top selected in injector fireing order table.
- I have the second LM1215 for VR sensor fitted but not using it, is this a problem?(shorted SJ5 not 7)
- Why is ignition fireing and injection not folllowing like it supposed to? What elements are involved (Hardware, software??)?
- I cant rule out trigger signal errors with platrigger, but this shouldnt interfere with injection sequence.
2011-03-21
Last week i ordered the PWM kit from the shop for the fet-drivers. I replaced today:
- Fet drivers
- Diodes M124 B14 ( left the ES2J in place)
- Fresh new type Fet's (IRF 64 ON)
- Fet 3 lights shortly but between blinks there is 3 or 4 seconds, other 2 wont blink at all.
The more i check things the more i think its firmware related.
Because if i disconnect the flyback the problem persist.
in Vemstune:
- RPM 1002rpm fixed in VT play trigger
- TPS fixed at 34%main group dash
- Duty cycle 11,7%, PW 14ms
- Trigger prime and sec working with errors sometimes
- Ignition blinking just visible with eye,
- Injection connectors with LED only one of 3 is blinking
- Divider =1
I can turn each injector on and off manually in injector visual setting.
Below the link to my files folder with log and config.
Firmware 1.1.85 upgraded to 1.1.88 same problem.
VT version 2011.02.10
A little step forward, if i turn off sec trigger all three LED's start blinking in selected firing order :-)
Lets hope its oke when the unit is bolted in the car and the Hall sensors do the triggering...
2011-03-17
- summary is nice. Together with .vemslog would be even more descriptive
- Vemslog: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/v3.3_k000122-2011.03.20-22.12.02.zip
- This Vemslog contains a lot of trigger error, we tried this config on bench and did not found trigger error, check for electical problems, while it isn't corrected any other thing can't good
- the injector settings/ injector firing divider is bad, need to set to 1
- Vemslog: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/v3.3_k000122-2011.03.20-22.12.02.zip
- test setup on a table. Everything cleaned and checked,
- Vemstune trigger signal generator is working beautiful with camsync
- wbo2 voltages with resistors fitted are perfectly in spec except the value stays at 0.4 (what value ?)
- WBO2 value in WBO2 Calibration panel when turned on with 100ohm resistors. (answer below :-)
- it can give any meaningful value with sensor only
- LED's fitted in the injector connectors are not blinking at the right speed (injector divider = ?)Divider = 1.
- i can however turn them on and off in vemstune testing mode
- RPM reading in vemstune OK
- injection opening time increasing with rpm.
- LED connected to ignition leads blinks like it supposed to do fast blinking.
Flyback is installed with zener (what type ? what voltage ? transient suppression diode ?)
- Zenor is TVS Zenor 30v (5KE30A N6282A)
- Diodes direction in LowZ are ok first diode Resistance 450ohm second 160 ohm
- we usually measure voltage drop on diodes, not resistance
- Voltage between (across?) diode 19,6v No between the diodes to GND.
- I measured the voltage over the diodes with board powered on no trigger Fets off and from Fet to Zenor with + to Fet and - to 1e diode, +to first diode - to second, + to second diode - to zenor, hope its correct, Supply voltage is 11,8v Diode direction in LowZ seup and 1st diodes are ES2J type and second m724 B14.
| Fet Off | first diode | second diode | Zenor |
| pin 7 | -1831mv | -3mv | -7mv |
| pin 19 | -15mv | -3mv | -7mv |
| pin 8 | -11mv | -3mv | -7mv |
| Fet ON | first diode | second diode | Zenor |
| pin 7 | -7,76v | -3mv | -9mv |
| pin 19 | -6,2v | -2mv | -9mv |
| pin 8 | -5,64v | -3mv | -9mv |
- and between diode (anode or cathode?) and Fet 10.05v (measured exactly in what direction) ? With FET's activated or not ? Or if injecting, than what RPM, pulsewidth, duty ?
- Supply Voltage is 11,8v from pc power supply.
Can de diodes be faulty?
- The whole setup is unclear from this.
We are sending out FET-based active flyback boards soon (best setup for low-Z injectors, best efficiency with PWM-ing still fast injector switchoff)
- bare boards around 2011-03-23
- assembled around 2011-03-30
24-02-2011
After i soldered r154 to get 12v to the Fet drivers i Noticed my 5v jumped up,
I didnt take notice because sensors can handle except the wide isnt working i got 5.72v at Pump- wich supposed to be 4v. I checked the wiring and read the wiki but cant find a solution
Problem solved bad copper corrosion on ground connectors renewed the connectors and problem solved volt readings are ok.
- were the effected receptacles soaked with water or some acid ? Any idea what could have corroded them ?
6-2-2011
Strange problem, VT shows 0 volts, tps not working and temp sensors display 154 degree and ghost signals on the cam sensor while its disconnected.
Possible cause, i soldered 2 diode d27 and d42 bottem of the board for signal conditioning but i removed because of ghost signals. I also soldered and removed the resistor and capacitor between pin 28 and 29 the 5 volt supply but i am only using 28 so for error searching i removed thema again.
Fet drivers still see 11.94v and board is running and loaded with firmware 1.1.84 maybe a broken trace or solder blob shorting something.
Well will take the unit out of the.car again and check it.
29-01 Question: Can a hall sensor ss443a be killed when its shorted to ground?
I glued the sensor inside the dizzy for cam referance using glue as insulator.
I checked wiring is ok, and have 4.87v at supply line. Before fitting the sensor it worked but after fitting and testing its dead .
Well had a spare tl4905l on the bench, glued, soldered and tested it.
Its working although hall sensors is still a mistery for me. Voltage at signal gate is 7,2v while 5v is applied. The ss443 gave 12v while 5v applied. I isolated all wires carefully so hope it works well now.
Config files, log files and triggerlog is found in the file area: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/
MembersPage/Daihard/Assembling
MembersPage/Daihard/InjectortestDevice
Ignition system
The initial start will use the original single coil and distributor.
Potential upgrade to coil on plug. Plug length from top of cover in CB80 GTti is 117mm . Bid on 6-BMW COP units on eBay 21-09-2004
Possible COP fitment (Beru) :
| beru nr | beru ref nr | connection | length in mm | ohms |
| ZLE 232 | (BMW) 0.300.122.102 | M4 | 117 | 2000 |
| ZLE 233 | (Audi/VW) 0.300.122.103 | M4 | 122 | 5000 |
| ZLE 234 | (Mercedes) 0.300.122.111 | M4 | 113 | 2000 |
Fuel system
A fuelpump pumps fuel from the tank through a filter to the fuel rail where your injectors are fitted and then through a fuel pressure regulator through the fuel return line back to the tank.
The fuel pressure regulator regulates the pressure in the fuelrail so the injectors can inject fuel with enough pressure.
Normally the pressure is between 2,5 and 3bar.
- fuelinjector:
Its a housing with a relative big electrical charged magnet, a needle a common spring and holes to get fuel to the needle.
The spring + the fuel pressure keeps the needle closed, the magnet moves the needle and opens the hole to inject fuel.
This opening happens in micro seconds and the whole secuance of opening, hold open and closing just takes milliseconds (1/1000 sec). Opening your injector by connecting your injector direct to a battery wil destroy your injector.
The coil inside gets to hot and burns your injector.
Opening of the injector is called Ramp-up and closing Ramp-down,
there is also the battery factor involved. When the battery voltage is lower, it takes longer for the injectors to open. This is compensated in the Battery_Factor value in Base Settings -> injector settings.
Injection takes time, Ramp-up+opentime+ramp-down compensated for battery voltage.
Fuel injectors : 3 pcs.DENSO 23250-87701-000 295cc/min
Injector fuel pressure rating : 2,5bar (Manual)
Fuel pump 80 litres/hour : 1330 cc/min
Injector solenoid electrical resistance : 13.8 ohms
Fuel injectors : 3 pcs.DENSO 195500-1350 460cc/min
Injector solenoid electrical resistance : 12.6 ohms
note:: I have a other set 195500-1350 wich measure 2,6 ohm
the diffreance is in the color of the top but measure to know.
You can ad a 10ohm resistance to run them in high ohm settings or change some parts on your board.
Flyback:
i fitted the diodes and a wire from the trace to EC36-23 but i never thought about it to pull a wire from EC36-23 to the Injector V+.
I read evry where you fried your board if its not connected but my board still seems to work well.
Update: 15-01-2011
I think i figured out the injector problems.
Version 3.2 already had the Fet drivers installed.
I got confused building the unit with the LowZ and highZ setup,
for highZ you should short SJ1 and solder D6 wich are not onboard of the 3.2 unit but on all previous versions.
In prior versions you should also short pin 2->7 and 4 ->5 at the Fet drivers solder place. But mine where already there. So what i did i configured a LowZ setup with the diodes in highZ setup. Some how this protected my unit from destruction but also prevented the injectors firing like they should. I connected a 0,5w light bulp and switching them on takes a couple of seconds and off to. tomorrow i desolder the 20v HighZ deodes and replace them with LowZ m124 B14 diodes in the correct way and check voltage at pin 3 + 6 from the Fet drivers for 12volts.
Update 27-1-2011
Yeah car started and run for a minute when the cam trigger tooth knocked of the hall sensor from its bracket
Before i removed the loom and board from the car for repairing the WBO2 pump - wire i checked voltage on the FET driver. Voltage was 0 at the supply pin. Reading the Wiki for information i found for driving the Fet's it needs to be higher then 6v and 12v is normal.
R154 on the back of the board on version 3.2 is the supply source of the drivers, and was missing.
I also soldered D14 and D27 wich i removed again because they give ghost triggers,
and R142 and C62 between pin 26 and 29 TPS supply and 5v wich i removed again because didnt see a point of pulling up voltage on the TPS wich works well on 5volts.
Finnely building the board and loom back into the car and tested the WBO2 wich still gave faulty readings.
Checking the pcb wiring from Pin 7 southbound the circuit to C50-C54 was damaged and giving the error.