The Ignition Pages
This area discuss some of the ignition options that are available on GenBoard. Along with that, are discussions about timing technique, parts, availability, and other research.
Ignition Topics
- EdisIgnition - Ford EDIS System where we calculate the spark advance, send (1536 - spark_adv_degrees * 25.6 ) usec SAW pulse to EDIS, and EDIS takes care of the actual ignition timing relative to crank position, dwell control and spark generation. EDIS uses it's own VR input from 36-1 timing (crank-)wheel so you'll have to add this to your crank.
- DwellControlIgnition -
- DummyIgnition - Taking care of dwell control. To make sure the coil is charged sufficiently.
- IgnCalc
- IgnitionPage/COP - Coil Over Plug technologies.
- IgnitionPage/TransformerWithAmplifier - coil with builtin driver
- IgnitionPage/TransformerWastedSpark
- TimingLight - See this page for a very simple DIY timing light
Q: are the COP off a BMW M5 3.5,3.6, or 3.8ltr diffrent?
what do
- part numbers
- mechanical and
- electric
Q: how can I use GM LS1 (???) smart coils which have built in drivers. Can you get some links to the documentation ? Maybe aliases (other names for the same , part numbers) ?
- [check on this page] (or actually [this]) if it's not another well-known system with another name
- http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3805&highlight=ls1
Is there any chance that there is no such thing as "GM LS1 smart coils" because LS1 is a car (corvette?) ?
LSX are 3rd gen chevy engines
LS1 >> C5 corvettes, 98+ f-bodys, Holden Munaro, Commodore and ( chevy caprice and lumina in the Middle East)
LS6 >> Z06 corvettes
LS2 >> C6 corvettes and 2005+ pontiac GTO
LS7 >> will be on corvette Z07
there are also 2000+ truck VORTEC engines that have the same ignition system but with hotter sparks
each of these engines has 8 coils "CNP" and uses a variable reluctance type camshaft position sensor
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=20037
I've read that these coils have built in drivers and considred as smart coils
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26513
pics
http://www.vettenet.org/ls1-5.html
download this pdf file it has some info about LS1 ignition system
[LS1.pdf Dead Link!!] According to the drawing the "smart coil" has an NPN inside (maybe same type that Keith bought the other day). However it might just be a draft. It's easy to verify (eg. with DVM: the Base-Emitter of an NPN drops about 600mV).
Here, you can buy several ignition coils, wires and several usefull things: http://www.nology.com/products.html
I recently found a very nice system that is used to upgrade the stock Honda ECUs to have all the unlimited tuning power the standalone ECUs.While learning how the system works i discovered that the Hondas that use VTEC (variable valve timing) use 2 different and independent(!) Ignition and Injection tables for low speed cam profile and for high speed cam profile.
More infos here in the downloadable s300 packets:
http://www.hondata.com/smanager.html
Would be nice to have this feature.(also with dashboard switch switchable,so race and road modes can be tuned for eco and maxpower)
Multiple maps already exist (since 1.0.29 or so?): Save / Load config and tables from a particular slot via
- mcS.
- mcL.
command. Replace the dot with 0..9 (1 digit, maybe not 0..9 just 0..3 so max 4 can be saved, not 10 different set of maps and config). The slot '0' gets loaded at boot (or saved with megatune or with mcs command). This might be useful with different fuel (ignition advance) or if the same ECU is used for different engines and can be reconfigured with 4 keystrokes with a PS2 (without notebook).
Ok,so maybe my desscription was not clear enough,these Honda engines demand
1.There is Some kind of switch witch must be monitored
'''(engine state,low cam or high cam)
'''2.Switching between tables ON THE FLY!!
Just think about it,you accelerate,then the other cam profile activates,you shuts down the vems,type some silly
commynds,and restarts???Please,BE a little more practical
The Honda ECU tells the engine when to change cams, not the other way around (otherwise Apexi VTEC controllers wouldn't sell so well).
VEMS can perform this switching too, for example when a set of conditions (MAP, RPM and so-on) have been reached.
Ok and whats if the actuator cant do the job and wont switch??
Why should it NOT switch? You just have to supply the correct signal, determined by the electrical characteristics. Or do you mean that the actuator itself fails for some reason and does not engage the other cam - so you end up effectively running with the wrong map?
You can get away with one set of maps in this case - as you know what cam you are using for each map cell. (Of course you then don't have freedom to arbitrarily move the VTEC switch point around without changing all the maps to cope - but the chances are you set this up once and leave it be...)
Switching maps could be useful in this case for economy and power maps, but AFAIK there's no pressing need to have VEMS switch maps during runtime.
So you think what the factory Honda ECU does is wrong
No.
and what vems can do is right??
No, but it does work, and new software features are happening all the time. I only pointed out that you don't NEED 2 map sets to make the engine work properly. Not that it was the ideal solution.
please take a look at hondatas maps,this is the way how
they control VTEC,and this is the BEST way.
Have used Hondata before. I thought it was a very good system. If it's the BEST way to control Honda engines, then why are you here?
1.I dont have a Honda,and i think i will never have one.
2.Im here to make this thing better.All i can do is that i say what others do,what i need,what i experience.Im still learning things,thats for sure,but some viewpoints are just not acceptable for me,sorry.
So u used hondata,can u please tell me how that worked?Good/Bad points,etc.
Of course it will need some programming to the current
firmware.They way you see things is like : we can do it.
Not exactly how others do ,not exactly what needed
but we have something.I think this point of view is
totally wrong.Maybe for experimenting it schould be ok
but nothing more.If you want a POWERFULL system,this
approach schould be TOTALLY CHANGED!!!
"Powerful" needs to be tempered with "robust". If it's powerful but not reliable, then that is MUCH worse than "it does enough to get by all of the time, and the extra features to make it much better will be done soon". (Believe me, I have a TVR - I know about the powerful and reliable tradeoff ;-) ) VEMS already does things that few aftermarket ECUs do. There are some things that it doesn't do yet that would be very useful. They will, no doubt, get done when there is sufficient time and motivation. Remember that it's a big project with lots of things happening.
There are requests,user needs what needed to be suffice,
sooner or later.
Im really tired fighting against this kind of behaviour.
And this is not flame on you!!!Just want to clear things
I have things I want done too. I have asked for them, and they seem to be in progress. It just takes a little time, and it's never quick enough is it!?!
Maybe this section should be used to start a Honda VTEC requirements page if such a thing doesn't yet exist?