History of MembersPage/AutostedetMotorsport/GinettaG
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2015-08-19 07:11:31 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Attached config and log]
2015-08-19 07:06:28 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-15 14:35:10 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [some quick verification calcs for Phil, all seems good]
2015-08-15 14:25:51 . . . . cv141-h01-176-147-33-20.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr [ok added fuel is not scaled]
2015-08-15 13:41:45 . . . . cv141-h01-176-147-33-20.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr [one more accel. enrich. comment]
2015-08-15 11:15:09 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [elaborated Phil's accel enrich comment.]
2015-08-15 09:38:49 . . . . cv141-h01-176-147-33-20.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr [enrichment values]
2015-08-13 20:35:11 . . . . PeterJensen [PRE. TRIG ERROR SOLVED]
2015-08-13 20:32:57 . . . . PeterJensen [PRE. TRIG ERROR SOLVED]
2015-08-11 08:08:35 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [reviewed last vemslog, no need for alarms]
2015-08-10 21:23:39 . . . . PeterJensen [!!! Help needed - Corrupt VEMS? - Help needed !!!]
2015-08-10 21:13:12 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [!!! Help needed - Corrupt VEMS? - Help needed !!!]
2015-08-10 19:39:49 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [!!! Help needed - Corrupt VEMS? - Help needed !!!]
2015-08-09 07:57:47 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [reviewed vemslogs, next steps.]
2015-08-09 07:43:05 . . . . cv141-h01-176-147-33-20.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr [log hint]
2015-08-08 22:01:41 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Help needed !!! Lambda and VE is off !!! Help needed]
2015-08-08 16:27:24 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Help needed !!! Lambda and VE is off !!! Help needed]
2015-08-08 16:00:11 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update (New stuff tested)]
2015-08-07 13:07:35 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [elaborated individual power difference ]
2015-08-07 11:17:18 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-07 08:03:26 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [reviewed last vemlog, comments.]
2015-08-07 07:04:11 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [HELP NEEDED !!! Cosworth Ignition !!! HELP NEEDED]
2015-08-07 07:00:32 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [HELP NEEDED !!! Cosworth Ignition !!! HELP NEEDED]
2015-08-06 16:48:54 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [reviewed vemslog, some questions.]
2015-08-06 15:44:52 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [HELP NEEDED !!! Cosworth Ignition !!! HELP NEEDED]
2015-08-06 15:34:11 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [HELP NEEDED !!! Cosworth Ignition !!! HELP NEEDED]
2015-08-06 15:33:16 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [HELP NEEDED !!! Cosworth Trigger !!! HELP NEEDED]
2015-08-06 10:30:36 . . . . 195-240-176-40.ip.telfort.nl [reviewed vemslog/triggerlog provided hints]
2015-08-06 10:08:02 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [HELP NEEDED !!! Cosworth Trigger !!! HELP NEEDED]
2015-08-05 22:49:30 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-05 22:42:04 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-05 20:14:34 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-05 20:10:50 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-05 19:16:20 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-05 19:14:41 . . . . AutostedetMotorsport [Update]
2015-08-05 16:01:53 . . . . 87-104-175-79-dynamic-customer.profibernet.dk [New page create]


Changes by last author:

Deleted:
== History (Getting this thing started) ==

06-08-2015

So we got the ignition gun (Analogue) and thought we were on to the next step, even so we had problems keeping the engine running smoothly - But it turns out the ignition signals on cyl 1 and 3 is so vague that the gun can't pick up the signal, works fine on cyl 2 and 4. Also removing injector connector 2 and 4 has great impact on the engine in idle, 1 close to no impact and 3 some ... We have tried to switch out the coil and the leads + we tried inverting the connections on the primary and secundary trigger with no luck.

Config: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-A-2015.08.06-11.32.26.vemscfg

Logfile: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015.08.06-11.32.29.vemslog

Triggerlog: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015-08-06-11.32.40.triggerlog

* (fphil) (In case it can help). From your log, why lambda = 1.35? Are the cylinder compressions good?

----

Review

Hello Lars,

I have reviewed your triggerlog and vemslog.

* triggerlog: looks good no obvious trigger problems there engine remains in perfect sync and timing of events on all cylinder seems even.

* vemslog: period seems uneven indeed, if pulling the injector plugs makes little difference than either:

** the injector is not working properly (perhaps stuck or fooled a simple free-air spray-test should show that)

** the ignition coil is not firing properly; have you tried the ignition tests mode with the coil spark leads connected to 4 grounded spark-plugs to see if both (wasted spark) coils are working properly ? Ignition test mode is available in VemsTune->Base setup->Ignition output visual, select testing mode->On and use the test buttons.

Looking forward to your report,

Best regards, Dave

----

06-08-2015 Update

Hi Dave,

Thanks for responding - i apreciate all the help I can get.

* Injectors

** I have not yet testet the injectors, cause they worked perfekt on a previous car - But i'll do that later to day.

* Ignition

** I changes the PIN 10 to 34 and 24 to 36 in the EC36 connector = No change

** I switched out the coil = No change

** I switched ign leads 1 to 2 and 3 to 3, switched the outputs 34 and 36 = No change

** I changes the spark plug on cyl. 4 = No change

* In general

** Last time i wrote i had problems with my ignition gun - I have now (not confirmed yet) a different result so my trigger setup for trigger after tooth is now set at 100 where it was 85 before ... This means that the engine runs really great, startup is fine, idle is fine, acc. is okay, but above 3.000 rpm or some i have misfiring (As like a cyl or two does not fire properly). I'm gonna get my hands on a new gun tomorrow to make sure my base setup for the timing is spot on .. but this has nothing to do with the fact that the periods are uneven.

Config: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-A-2015.08.06-17.06.29.vemscfg

Log: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015.08.06-17.04.42.vemslog

----

Hello Lars,

What was the result of the spark testing from vemstune ?

I have reviewed your last vemslog, periods seem to behave now all seems good.

Your lambda sensor indicates engine is running very lean is it connected and in the exhaust ? If the answer is yes than you might benefit from changing the req fuel like 25% to see if that improves things.

Best regards, Dave

----

Hi Dave,

* Ignition

** It looks okay at the sparks - when they're out and i test from VEMS Tune

** Ignition is set at 101 (TDC before trigger in Trigger Setup) - With a new and very old gun i'm curtain i get the correct data. So base setup for ignition is done.

* Injection

** Unplugging the connectors has similar impact on all 4 cyl.

** With the injectors pulled out in the free air and testing from VEMS Tune i have simular paterns - Looks great

** Lambda is plugged in and calibrated - I did raise some of the figures yesterday and achieved a lambda that give me data and not simply 1,83 all the time ;) - I'm gonna reset the figures and raise the req fuel next

* General

** Noticed that balance in VEMS Tune is not the cyl - VEMS Tune 3 is cyl. 4, 1 is cyl. 3, 2 is cyl. 1 and 4 is cyl. 2

** Tested engine compression - Difference is below 0,5 bar all around (11,5 > 12,0 bar)

Regards Lars

----

Hello Lars,

All seems well then, engine just needs some tuning; Adjust the fueling so the engine idles around 0.95 lambda and tune the rest of sites in low load rpm direction the map accordingly; That should solve your misfiring; If not please report and provide vemslog showing idling at around 0.95 lambda and misbehave when rev up and i will review.

I'm not sure why your wiki edits keep stating "HELP NEEDED" ? You are moving in the right direction.

Best regards, Dave

----

Hi Dave,

I would expect periods that does not differ this much - Even if i set the RPM to 3.000 i have a great difference in my period / balance view.

My problem now is (As i see it)

* Cylinder Periods

** Uneven - Cyl. 3 and 2 are way lower than Cyl. 4 and 1

* Small misfire

** When idle i have periodic misfire - if the gun is on i can see i'm missing a fire from time to time - My dwell time on the coil is now set at 3.52, but i need to investigate what is the correct dwell time (Motorsport Development says on there website: The new Cosworth coil pack driver runs various different dwell periods depending on engine RPM.)

* Fuel Map

** To reach a lambda below 1 i have to set my map around 165 in the VE table up to around 1500 RPM - On the road, when i go above 1500 RPM i'm getting data as i expect. so fx. in the area 1500-3000 RPM and 30-100 Kpa i'm around 52-70 in the VE Table (Look great), but going below 1500 RPM i have to set the tables around 165 to achieve a lambda around 1 and that is way to rich.

----

Hello Lars,

The period difference is not that much but seems to be caused by some unevenness in the trigger wheel on crank (difference between 3->1 and 2-> 4 is about the same), you could try inverting crank VR polarity (as a test) to see if that reduces it, take care this also alters timing calibration

Keep in mind of the units used in the relative power window (/injector calibration) it is in microseconds ->

I do not see any alarming individual power difference at idle, take care of the units: average diff is around 200-250 usec, rpm period @880 rpm is around (1/(880/60))/2 = 34msec so its only a 250usec/34msec * 100 = 0.735% difference (when taking the worst case 250usec reading) actually quite even. No need to worry

Good dwell for a wasted spark coil is usually between 2.5 and 3.5 msec.

If you have another vemslog i need to review, feel free to ask.

Best regards, Dave

----

08/08-2015

Hi Dave,

Okay, i see that the balance thingy is not worth looking further in to - Also i'm pretty sure the effect of disconnecting the plug on the injectors are alike on all four cylindres.

Issue: Lambda data and VE table is way off .. Since i got this thing started I have only seen 1.83 lambda, and that continues up to around 2200 RPM, where it starts to move down.

My conclusion - When i have 1.83 in lambda the engine sound good, the idle is around 750 and the exhaust look good, but when i try to reach lambda closer to 1 my engine drowns, the rpm drops and the exhaust goes black smoke / rich mixture.

I have made to config / logs - one is with a VE table at 52 and one is with a VE tabel around 90 - When VE table is 90 the engine almost cant do idle, it smells of gasoline and black smoke is seen from the exhaust = Very rich mixture.

Please have a look

VE @ 52 - Tested at TPS 0 and TPS 7

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/config-ve52-tps0-tps7.vemscfg

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/log-ve52-tps0-tps7.vemslog

VE @ 90 - Tested at TPS 0 and TPS 7

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/config-ve90-tps0-tps7.vemscfg

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/log-ve90-tps0-tps7.vemslog

----

Hello Lars,

I see what you mean (after reviewing both vemslogs above), when enriching the engine it definitely runs worse (rpm drops, engine pulls less vacuum meaning less power), what happens when you try to lean it out by lowering the req_fuel say 25% ? When the wideband is outside the measurement range (both way to rich and way to lean) or not warmed up it will show 1.83.

We tested the out of range lean case (by enriching), so there a two options left:

* engine is running out of range rich (which seems to match your observations puff and smokes when enriching).

* there is some wideband problem, do you happen to have a external wideband meter (standalone) you could put in the exhaust to confirm the readings ?

Best regards, Dave

----

10/08-2015

Hi Dave,

Sorry for the delay.

Yesterday i connected a new lambda to rule that out - Changing the lambda had no effect on the lambda value, it was still stuck at 1.83 below 2200 RPM.

Then i mounted a secondary lambda (To be connected to my LC-2 device), i got i connected but my serial2usb was fucked and didn't wan't to connect to my PC .. i tried different thing with my device manager, com ports etc., but no luck, by coincident i started the car (With the VEMS plugged in and VEMS tune online) and suddenly my lambda was 1 ... The rest of the weekend was spent tuning my values and in the end i really thought I was on the right track, but ... more funny stuff was going on.

* Sometimes when i start the engine and VEMS tune my lambda is 1.83 (Engine warm, lambda warm), then i stop the engine, start the engine, connects and my lambda is normal again.

* I calibrated my lambda tree days ago, i wrote down the calibration value, it was 177 - I did another calibration yesterday and my value was set at 155.

* Before changing the lambda i did some adjustments to the injector settings, more precisely injector order, but with no change in the way the engine was behaving - Could this be why my lambda suddenly got stable around 1 if the VEMS didn't really BURN the settings i made .. and then after several on/off's it did?

* Today i was doing a log for you and Peter. Started the car at 45C, connected the VEMS tune and started driving carefully. After some time i noticed that my coolant was 71C and the car instrument said 85C. The temp moved between 69 and 70C until i got back (This has been 85-90C in all other runs). When i rolled in the shop i noticed that the intake was -40C, i restarted VEMS tune with no effect and then stopped and started the engine, no my intake said 30C

* When looking at the log i find that my battery voltage changes under this run - Starts out with 12.59 (What is usually is at), then i crank the engine and i goes to 12.24, the next 6 minutes the voltages drops to 11.88 and then suddently 7.40 minutes in the run it changes to 13.29 (What it usually is when running).

* Cylinder balance/period is still uneven and i have never seen this fluctuate like this and considering that i changes coil, cables switched etc. i makes no sense for me.

* When i turn of the engine and i'm connected to VEMS tune my pulse width is 186.0 > 186.8

* When i turn of the engine and i'm connected to VEMS tune my cylinder period on output 3 is fluctuating from -150 to 500 uS, none of the others have any readings.

Regarding the generator - The generator is defective ... it woun't start charging before engine RPM reaches 3900 RPM - I'm gonna change it, but i don't think it effects the above observations.

My concern and suspicion is that my VEMS box is corrupt - Something is not as it should be.

This keeping in mind that i have spent more than 120 hours trying to get this great machine running as i would expect it - Triggers, injectors, lambda values, temperature values, battery voltage etc. I think i have be on the phone with Peter fore more than 6 hours over the past couple of days ;)

Log http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015.08.10-15.58.27.vemslog

----

Hello Lars,

Review of last vemslog:

* When engine is not running and wbo2 started on powerup is enabled (as you have) the individual power variables and pulsewidth variables are re-used to provide o2 percentage and wideband control operation information to diagnose the wideband controllers. This is not BAD behavior but actually behaving exactly as intended.

* after engine restart the wideband controller restarts its heating cycle in which the reported lambda value will always be 1.83 monitor the [iso2ready flag] it will let you know when wideband is ready for use.

* individual power difference during engine running: i already elaborated the potential cause of this in my last review; since it is the same for both cylinder pairs the likeliest cause is trigger wheel. Could you show me a scopeshot of the VR signal on primary trigger with engine running ?

* MAT value dropping to -40 during the log then recovering looks like a bad connection to me, when unconnected the default value (due to the internal pullup) is -40, check you wiring to mat sensor and connector crimps to see if one of the wires potentially has a bad crimp/wire

* the only thing i agree is out of the order is that sometimes the lambda does not give a proper reading (or takes a long time to heat up resulting in the 1.83); to pinpoint this double check if the external LC-2 also has the same reading

Let's not jump to conclusions here, please get back to me with answers/observations/measurements on my checks above and we'll work from there.

Best regards, Dave

----

13-08-2015

This vems oem vr/vr box has pre. trigger error at 4500 rpm low boost.

I changed the pull up pre trig from 27k to 10k and it looks promising for this low tooth count trigger.

TNX

Peter

* (fphil) Have you noticed from v3.3_u010400-2015.08.10-15.58.27 vemslog that the Acceleration Enrichment function are making crazy PW values although the dTPS/Enrichment table is set = 0?

** caused by 'crazy' configured ADDED amount of 234% of req fuel when cold (-40degC) scaled down to 0 at 74degC (which the engine never reaches in that log) therefore behaving exactly as intended. I would however recommend disabling the added amount (set to zero) the multiplicative factor (acc cold mult factor usually works best). Best regards, Dave

*** *** Correct, 14.4% remaining due to temp scaling (downscaled from 234% @-40 to 0% @ 74 degC), configured Required Fuel = 15.0 (see Base setup->Engine setup) results in about 2.15 according to my quick calc, log reports 2.3msec added not to far off. - Dave

*** (fphil) ok added fuel is not dTPS scaled

----

== Todo ==

* Calibrate lambda - DONE

* Check 16 deg BDC is spot on- DONE

* Check 16 deg BDC is spot on all 4 cylinders DONE

* Change reg. fuel to 25% more (From 12 to 15) DONE (Does not fix the fuel/air ratio - Lambda still 1.83)

* Change lambda - Tested with a Bosch LSU-4.2 DONE (No change)

* Change polarity on primary and secondary trigger DONE (No change - Cant start when wires are switched)

* Check the ignition 16 BTC mark for all four cylindres DONE

* Find out correct dwell time on specific coil -

* Change coil to other model (Peugeot) -

Changed:
== Specifications / Technical Data (Cosworth YB Engine) ==
== Specifications / Standard Technical Data (Cosworth YB Engine) ==
Changed:
*Bosch 803 injectors

*3 bar map sensor

*Wasted spark (Ford Motorsport coil)

*Internal 3 bar map sensor

*Wasted spark (Ford Motorsport passive coil)

Added:
Config file: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/config-final-edition-19-08-2015.vemscfg

Log file: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015.08.14-11.03.15.vemslog

Added:
Finetuning this engine made us rearrange the injector order - Is set at 4-2-1-3
Changed:
*Wastegate control on PIN 16 (Also connected to ignition+)
*Wastegate control on PIN 16 (Also connected to ignition+)

---

History / Debugging etc.

== History (Getting this thing started) ==

06-08-2015

So we got the ignition gun (Analogue) and thought we were on to the next step, even so we had problems keeping the engine running smoothly - But it turns out the ignition signals on cyl 1 and 3 is so vague that the gun can't pick up the signal, works fine on cyl 2 and 4. Also removing injector connector 2 and 4 has great impact on the engine in idle, 1 close to no impact and 3 some ... We have tried to switch out the coil and the leads + we tried inverting the connections on the primary and secundary trigger with no luck.

Config: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-A-2015.08.06-11.32.26.vemscfg

Logfile: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015.08.06-11.32.29.vemslog

Triggerlog: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015-08-06-11.32.40.triggerlog

* (fphil) (In case it can help). From your log, why lambda = 1.35? Are the cylinder compressions good?

----

Review

Hello Lars,

I have reviewed your triggerlog and vemslog.

* triggerlog: looks good no obvious trigger problems there engine remains in perfect sync and timing of events on all cylinder seems even.

* vemslog: period seems uneven indeed, if pulling the injector plugs makes little difference than either:

** the injector is not working properly (perhaps stuck or fooled a simple free-air spray-test should show that)

** the ignition coil is not firing properly; have you tried the ignition tests mode with the coil spark leads connected to 4 grounded spark-plugs to see if both (wasted spark) coils are working properly ? Ignition test mode is available in VemsTune->Base setup->Ignition output visual, select testing mode->On and use the test buttons.

Looking forward to your report,

Best regards, Dave

----

06-08-2015 Update

Hi Dave,

Thanks for responding - i apreciate all the help I can get.

* Injectors

** I have not yet testet the injectors, cause they worked perfekt on a previous car - But i'll do that later to day.

* Ignition

** I changes the PIN 10 to 34 and 24 to 36 in the EC36 connector = No change

** I switched out the coil = No change

** I switched ign leads 1 to 2 and 3 to 3, switched the outputs 34 and 36 = No change

** I changes the spark plug on cyl. 4 = No change

* In general

** Last time i wrote i had problems with my ignition gun - I have now (not confirmed yet) a different result so my trigger setup for trigger after tooth is now set at 100 where it was 85 before ... This means that the engine runs really great, startup is fine, idle is fine, acc. is okay, but above 3.000 rpm or some i have misfiring (As like a cyl or two does not fire properly). I'm gonna get my hands on a new gun tomorrow to make sure my base setup for the timing is spot on .. but this has nothing to do with the fact that the periods are uneven.

Config: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-A-2015.08.06-17.06.29.vemscfg

Log: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015.08.06-17.04.42.vemslog

----

Hello Lars,

What was the result of the spark testing from vemstune ?

I have reviewed your last vemslog, periods seem to behave now all seems good.

Your lambda sensor indicates engine is running very lean is it connected and in the exhaust ? If the answer is yes than you might benefit from changing the req fuel like 25% to see if that improves things.

Best regards, Dave

----

Hi Dave,

* Ignition

** It looks okay at the sparks - when they're out and i test from VEMS Tune

** Ignition is set at 101 (TDC before trigger in Trigger Setup) - With a new and very old gun i'm curtain i get the correct data. So base setup for ignition is done.

* Injection

** Unplugging the connectors has similar impact on all 4 cyl.

** With the injectors pulled out in the free air and testing from VEMS Tune i have simular paterns - Looks great

** Lambda is plugged in and calibrated - I did raise some of the figures yesterday and achieved a lambda that give me data and not simply 1,83 all the time ;) - I'm gonna reset the figures and raise the req fuel next

* General

** Noticed that balance in VEMS Tune is not the cyl - VEMS Tune 3 is cyl. 4, 1 is cyl. 3, 2 is cyl. 1 and 4 is cyl. 2

** Tested engine compression - Difference is below 0,5 bar all around (11,5 > 12,0 bar)

Regards Lars

----

Hello Lars,

All seems well then, engine just needs some tuning; Adjust the fueling so the engine idles around 0.95 lambda and tune the rest of sites in low load rpm direction the map accordingly; That should solve your misfiring; If not please report and provide vemslog showing idling at around 0.95 lambda and misbehave when rev up and i will review.

I'm not sure why your wiki edits keep stating "HELP NEEDED" ? You are moving in the right direction.

Best regards, Dave

----

Hi Dave,

I would expect periods that does not differ this much - Even if i set the RPM to 3.000 i have a great difference in my period / balance view.

My problem now is (As i see it)

* Cylinder Periods

** Uneven - Cyl. 3 and 2 are way lower than Cyl. 4 and 1

* Small misfire

** When idle i have periodic misfire - if the gun is on i can see i'm missing a fire from time to time - My dwell time on the coil is now set at 3.52, but i need to investigate what is the correct dwell time (Motorsport Development says on there website: The new Cosworth coil pack driver runs various different dwell periods depending on engine RPM.)

* Fuel Map

** To reach a lambda below 1 i have to set my map around 165 in the VE table up to around 1500 RPM - On the road, when i go above 1500 RPM i'm getting data as i expect. so fx. in the area 1500-3000 RPM and 30-100 Kpa i'm around 52-70 in the VE Table (Look great), but going below 1500 RPM i have to set the tables around 165 to achieve a lambda around 1 and that is way to rich.

----

Hello Lars,

The period difference is not that much but seems to be caused by some unevenness in the trigger wheel on crank (difference between 3->1 and 2-> 4 is about the same), you could try inverting crank VR polarity (as a test) to see if that reduces it, take care this also alters timing calibration

Keep in mind of the units used in the relative power window (/injector calibration) it is in microseconds ->

I do not see any alarming individual power difference at idle, take care of the units: average diff is around 200-250 usec, rpm period @880 rpm is around (1/(880/60))/2 = 34msec so its only a 250usec/34msec * 100 = 0.735% difference (when taking the worst case 250usec reading) actually quite even. No need to worry

Good dwell for a wasted spark coil is usually between 2.5 and 3.5 msec.

If you have another vemslog i need to review, feel free to ask.

Best regards, Dave

----

08/08-2015

Hi Dave,

Okay, i see that the balance thingy is not worth looking further in to - Also i'm pretty sure the effect of disconnecting the plug on the injectors are alike on all four cylindres.

Issue: Lambda data and VE table is way off .. Since i got this thing started I have only seen 1.83 lambda, and that continues up to around 2200 RPM, where it starts to move down.

My conclusion - When i have 1.83 in lambda the engine sound good, the idle is around 750 and the exhaust look good, but when i try to reach lambda closer to 1 my engine drowns, the rpm drops and the exhaust goes black smoke / rich mixture.

I have made to config / logs - one is with a VE table at 52 and one is with a VE tabel around 90 - When VE table is 90 the engine almost cant do idle, it smells of gasoline and black smoke is seen from the exhaust = Very rich mixture.

Please have a look

VE @ 52 - Tested at TPS 0 and TPS 7

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/config-ve52-tps0-tps7.vemscfg

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/log-ve52-tps0-tps7.vemslog

VE @ 90 - Tested at TPS 0 and TPS 7

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/config-ve90-tps0-tps7.vemscfg

http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/log-ve90-tps0-tps7.vemslog

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Hello Lars,

I see what you mean (after reviewing both vemslogs above), when enriching the engine it definitely runs worse (rpm drops, engine pulls less vacuum meaning less power), what happens when you try to lean it out by lowering the req_fuel say 25% ? When the wideband is outside the measurement range (both way to rich and way to lean) or not warmed up it will show 1.83.

We tested the out of range lean case (by enriching), so there a two options left:

* engine is running out of range rich (which seems to match your observations puff and smokes when enriching).

* there is some wideband problem, do you happen to have a external wideband meter (standalone) you could put in the exhaust to confirm the readings ?

Best regards, Dave

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10/08-2015

Hi Dave,

Sorry for the delay.

Yesterday i connected a new lambda to rule that out - Changing the lambda had no effect on the lambda value, it was still stuck at 1.83 below 2200 RPM.

Then i mounted a secondary lambda (To be connected to my LC-2 device), i got i connected but my serial2usb was fucked and didn't wan't to connect to my PC .. i tried different thing with my device manager, com ports etc., but no luck, by coincident i started the car (With the VEMS plugged in and VEMS tune online) and suddenly my lambda was 1 ... The rest of the weekend was spent tuning my values and in the end i really thought I was on the right track, but ... more funny stuff was going on.

* Sometimes when i start the engine and VEMS tune my lambda is 1.83 (Engine warm, lambda warm), then i stop the engine, start the engine, connects and my lambda is normal again.

* I calibrated my lambda tree days ago, i wrote down the calibration value, it was 177 - I did another calibration yesterday and my value was set at 155.

* Before changing the lambda i did some adjustments to the injector settings, more precisely injector order, but with no change in the way the engine was behaving - Could this be why my lambda suddenly got stable around 1 if the VEMS didn't really BURN the settings i made .. and then after several on/off's it did?

* Today i was doing a log for you and Peter. Started the car at 45C, connected the VEMS tune and started driving carefully. After some time i noticed that my coolant was 71C and the car instrument said 85C. The temp moved between 69 and 70C until i got back (This has been 85-90C in all other runs). When i rolled in the shop i noticed that the intake was -40C, i restarted VEMS tune with no effect and then stopped and started the engine, no my intake said 30C

* When looking at the log i find that my battery voltage changes under this run - Starts out with 12.59 (What is usually is at), then i crank the engine and i goes to 12.24, the next 6 minutes the voltages drops to 11.88 and then suddently 7.40 minutes in the run it changes to 13.29 (What it usually is when running).

* Cylinder balance/period is still uneven and i have never seen this fluctuate like this and considering that i changes coil, cables switched etc. i makes no sense for me.

* When i turn of the engine and i'm connected to VEMS tune my pulse width is 186.0 > 186.8

* When i turn of the engine and i'm connected to VEMS tune my cylinder period on output 3 is fluctuating from -150 to 500 uS, none of the others have any readings.

Regarding the generator - The generator is defective ... it woun't start charging before engine RPM reaches 3900 RPM - I'm gonna change it, but i don't think it effects the above observations.

My concern and suspicion is that my VEMS box is corrupt - Something is not as it should be.

This keeping in mind that i have spent more than 120 hours trying to get this great machine running as i would expect it - Triggers, injectors, lambda values, temperature values, battery voltage etc. I think i have be on the phone with Peter fore more than 6 hours over the past couple of days ;)

Log http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Au2Stedet/GinettaG33Cosworth/v3.3_u010400-2015.08.10-15.58.27.vemslog

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Hello Lars,

Review of last vemslog:

* When engine is not running and wbo2 started on powerup is enabled (as you have) the individual power variables and pulsewidth variables are re-used to provide o2 percentage and wideband control operation information to diagnose the wideband controllers. This is not BAD behavior but actually behaving exactly as intended.

* after engine restart the wideband controller restarts its heating cycle in which the reported lambda value will always be 1.83 monitor the [iso2ready flag] it will let you know when wideband is ready for use.

* individual power difference during engine running: i already elaborated the potential cause of this in my last review; since it is the same for both cylinder pairs the likeliest cause is trigger wheel. Could you show me a scopeshot of the VR signal on primary trigger with engine running ?

* MAT value dropping to -40 during the log then recovering looks like a bad connection to me, when unconnected the default value (due to the internal pullup) is -40, check you wiring to mat sensor and connector crimps to see if one of the wires potentially has a bad crimp/wire

* the only thing i agree is out of the order is that sometimes the lambda does not give a proper reading (or takes a long time to heat up resulting in the 1.83); to pinpoint this double check if the external LC-2 also has the same reading

Let's not jump to conclusions here, please get back to me with answers/observations/measurements on my checks above and we'll work from there.

Best regards, Dave

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13-08-2015

This vems oem vr/vr box has pre. trigger error at 4500 rpm low boost.

I changed the pull up pre trig from 27k to 10k and it looks promising for this low tooth count trigger.

TNX

Peter

* (fphil) Have you noticed from v3.3_u010400-2015.08.10-15.58.27 vemslog that the Acceleration Enrichment function are making crazy PW values although the dTPS/Enrichment table is set = 0?

** caused by 'crazy' configured ADDED amount of 234% of req fuel when cold (-40degC) scaled down to 0 at 74degC (which the engine never reaches in that log) therefore behaving exactly as intended. I would however recommend disabling the added amount (set to zero) the multiplicative factor (acc cold mult factor usually works best). Best regards, Dave

*** *** Correct, 14.4% remaining due to temp scaling (downscaled from 234% @-40 to 0% @ 74 degC), configured Required Fuel = 15.0 (see Base setup->Engine setup) results in about 2.15 according to my quick calc, log reports 2.3msec added not to far off. - Dave

*** (fphil) ok added fuel is not dTPS scaled