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IMPORTANT: enter the case-INsensitive alphabetic (no numbers) code AND WRITE SOME SHORT summary of changes (below) if you are saving changes. (not required for previewing changes). Wiki-spamming is not tolerated, will be removed, so it does NOT even show up in history. Spammers go away now. Visit Preferences to set your user name Summary of change: Having seen MembersPage/NanassyPeter/CloneInstall it became apparent that it's possible to make something in 8000 Euro (at least in Hungary) that leaves most Ferraris, BMWs and factory Subarus standing at the starting line. * MembersPage/MarcellGal/PowerAndTraction/PnpHarness * MembersPage/MarcellGal/PowerAndTraction/FuelDelivery * MembersPage/MarcellGal/PowerAndTraction/AirConditioner * MembersPage/MarcellGal/PowerAndTraction/Alternator We '''accept that the max power of this engine will be limited by the following parts''': * K26/27 turbo, especially with the #6 turbine housing * the factory exhaust manifold * the factory charge cooler * maybe pistons as well Effectively, max power (on the crank) that can ideally be achieved with this setup is estimated max 380 .. 400 HP. We don't want to stress it further because: * many parts (at least the ones in above list) should be upgraded to get even just +50 HP ** this would delay the project and draw attention from our main focus: to get the electronic, firmware, config and docs part completed * 380 HP is already dangerous enough * we want a streetable car. This means we want boost at around 3000 .. 3500 RPM, and we don't want to sacrifice reliability for further performance ---- The 20VT (5 cyl, 20 valve turbo) engine is quite amazing * intake and block are very good (intake allows >400 HP if other parts do support the air), with good supply of aftermarket pistons and rods if one wants more * factory turbo is restrictive unless one settles for 250..270 HP * factory (casted) exhaust manifold is a joke. Noone knows the real performance, probably it gets restrictive above 350 HP, and makes airflow differ in the cylinders. Most tuners will install a new exhaust manifold (with a bigger turbo of course) ** though some say even the factory exhaust manifold works well up to 400 Hp. It's hard to tell the flow difference between cylinders. * the drivetrain (gearbox, differentials and other pieces) of the audis that came with this engine is very durable, this makes it a low-budget option to make a high performance car ** though they understeer, which can be helped somewhat with right suspension, but some understeer will remain. * and last, but not least, leaves enough room in the engine bay for extras, and maintenance '''We purchased''' a * street-legal Audi 200 quattro turbo (paper says 1400 kg without driver and fuel: a bit heavy, but not insanely) * with 3B (20V 5 cyl turbo) engine ** though different than AAN, all the main points are the same. The small wiring differences, including 1 or 5 ignition outputs are '''very''' easy to apply We understand the potential in these engines and want to support tuners around the world who chose this engine. The '''most important target''' of this install is '''to get the InputTrigger/AudiTrigger install procedure as simple, painless and reproducible as possible''' * doc improvements * v3.x assembled with 55pin motronic for PNP install (reusing the MAF and NBO2 wires for the WBO2), possibly min 2..3 versions: ** 1 coil harness ** 5 coil harness ** TODO: evaluate the other 55pin pinouts out there ** not sure if the K-jet harness is easy to support at all * perhaps with firmware and logging mods / suggestions, to help finding and fixing trigger issues '''Near-future plans with this install''' * '''20VT - 5 cyl 4 valve, turbo''' * 4WD - leave as is ;-) * leave factory intake for now ** DROPPED idea of highend intake: after the throttle, the ends of 5 pipes arranged in a circle around a cone, in the firing order of course (tube from charge cooler to throttle might need to go around the radiator, not a big problem) ** CHOSEN: factory intake is good enough for us * get a working bottom-end (the block in the car we purchased was broken). This should be hammered before 2007-03-15 * engine management VEMS ---- '''Exhaust and turbo''' - advice accepted, I have no experience here * we want to complete the install ASAP ** the factory turbo can do 220 HP in factory install, max 250 .. 270 HP with raised boost. Apparently we currently don't have such turbo (what is the type anyway?) ** the new engine we purchase has K24, Maybe 270 HP or so ** it seems the (broken-block) engine we purchased the car with had K26 (NOT the factory turbo). Maybe 360 HP or so ** CHOSEN: since compressor blades seem to be "sanded" (as if it was driven without air-filter), while renewing, '''we get the turbo compressor side upgraded to K26/27 for 600 EUR'''. Should worth it for a turbo with known perfect guts. Good for appr 400..420 HP. Minor compromise is that '''it will be an oil-only turbo''' from than on (=> no watercooling: if I understand right, keeping watercooling would require some overpriced factory parts that just aint worth it). The K26 turbo was transferred to http://www.ahturbo.hu/ with instructions: * '''to upgrade compressor side to K27 with rotor sizes 53mm/76mm''' ** what is the size of the turbine wheel? Kalske and emil suggest: with 53mm comp wheel, turbine should be about 56-57mm. Its useless with smaller turbine than compressor. ** '''turbine outlet is 55mm diameter''' (is the 6, 8 or 10 in KKK numbering scheme? ). The turbo builders confirmed that nanassy's suggestions are reasonable. Actually, it's the clone of a proven setup (that worked well in an engine built by them earlier ). * turbine renewed (but housing kept) * oil-only accepted (loss of water-cooling) * Kalske says: Remember that RS2 turbo is 48/54 which is good for about 360, you are getting 53/55 which will do 400++ ** Nanassy said exactly the same ! * Kalske and jhwh say: the same turbine wheel goes into 3 different A/R housing, marked (in KKK numbering) 6,8 and 10. Higher nr gives more power (appr 45 HP each step), but boosts later (3000, 3500 and 4000 RPM, respectively). ** so turbine housing="8" is the best choice for this turbo. Stay away from 10. 6 is not optimal, but works. ** you should look for a cheap #8 house. On [ http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=72 rennlist] you can probably get a 8 housing next to free as many people upgrade ** if you come over a good deal on one it should only be a minor mod, remove turbo, remove housing, bolt back on * AFAIK KKK uses cm2 rating on turbines instead of A/R (on Garretts, and so on...). I guesstimate the 8cm2 turbine will provide a quick spool-up (maybe in the 2200-2800 rpm range on a 2.2l engine), which means big fun on street, and some restriction in the top-end power. -GergelyLezsak- ---- '''Later''' * bigger injectors will be necessary to utilize the bigger turbo ** maybe higher pressure FPR (or FPR springs?) * possibly water injection You can find some pictures under [http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/MarcellGal/Audi/ files], including * old engine with cyl1 wall knocked out by rod; cyl1 rod shrinked 10mm !! ---- '''Links''' * [http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/200-specs.html Audi 200 specs] ** this engine does not seem to have cruisecontrol capability (huge "idle-valve" or throttle actuator) * [http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/repair.html Repair manual] - awesome resource * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_100 * [http://audi100.selbst-doku.de/Main/EnglishHomepage self-documentation wiki] original selbst-doku.de is German, and the English is just a babelfish auto-translation (not recommended to edit the English) Optional: Add document to category: Wiki formatting: * is Bullet list ** Bullet list subentry ... 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