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------------ :EDIS topic Anyone looking to retrofit a motor for EDIS may benefit from this common part source. Turns out the inside clutch drum for a 700R4 or 4L60E, has 36 teeth and is commonly thrown away on rebuilds. A model maker's steady hand with a small hand grinder should fix this up just fine. Here are a series of scans of what it looks like, with some dimensions. A friendly transmission rebuilding shop should let one search the parts discard for samples, my local shop gave me three. ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/700R4_1_2_spragassemblysml.gif Complete assembly]|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/700R4_1_2_spraginside.jpg Inside drum view]|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/700R4_1_2_spragbottom.jpg Bottom drum view]|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/700R4_1_2_spragteeth.jpg Drum Teeth view]|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/70R4_1_2_spragdimensions.jpg Drum basic dimensions]|| ---- ||Example of an EEC testing setup with pin socket connectors and screw terminal outputs for engine interface.|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/e4smalltop.gif Topside view]|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/e4botbenchsml.gif Bottom Connectors]|| ---- ||Views of EEC chosen for replacement|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/EEC_board.gif E4 board Scan]|| ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/EE4_dimensions.gif E4 board Dimensions]|| ---- ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/megabaro.jpg Remote Baro Board]|| ||Discussed design of this, found experiment for updating an MS in mountainous terrain|| ---- ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/eecvehicles_sample.xls Sample Excel]|| ||Looking at the more popular configurations, will need advice/input from European sources|| ---- ||[http://www.vems.hu/files/EEC_JayJames/ford_bap.txt Ford Baro Frequency list]|| ||This listing seems to disagree with manual for MAP that stated frequency went up with increasing vacuum || ||Ford BAP and MAP appear physically identical, I was reading in one source that the MAP freq increases as vacuum increases, IE, highest frequency at idle.|| ||Looking at Baro file shows highest freq at 28-31 hg or around 100 kpa which is normal atmospheric.|| || This seems to flag a contradiction and we will have to actually check a MAP and BAP for establishing decoding circuitry in genboard|| || As a side note, the manual in question states that CPP signal in Probe was opposite to all other models, so Ford does these inversions, but also found a few other typo's like "3920" deg F or "2000" C|| || Always run //stuff// through the "associative - reasonable mill" ;) || || While conversing about air sensors, want to mention that based on following, we may want to consider switching or some intermediate use of a MAF. (Here, other non MAF cars might want to add MAF)|| ||It bears to reinterate that Ford switched philosophy to use MAF in e5 for load calculations, (which among other better ideas of up to 15 deg retard in timing during auto shift and kickdown {manual trans uses TPS deriviative})|| || At least one MS member (below) is working to convert a MS to 4.6 Mustang with considerable success so far, his comparison of stock Ford MAF to MS MAP indicates a better resolution|| MAP resolution itself can be simply made much (4..8 times) better actually than the original MS MAP. See MassAirFlow Of course we consider MAF, and will support it at some point. Making an own page is not burying at all, but '''emphasizing''' it and doing a cleaner wiki-layout instead of large junky page (which is burying in fact!). (with other philosophy we would have just one VEMs related page with 3Mbyte of unstructured junk) Make Ford pages link to it. Please prefer structured pages to notes under Memberspages (that's still much better than mailing list though). A lot of serious builders use 300 deg + cams, I myself have one running that is 330 deg at .005, these ''animals'' can benefit as i've stated below. ||MAF can really help radical cam situations at idle (As will a delay from TPDC for injection, at least below 2-3k RPM), along with part throttle ignition advance tied to air use, but for now, full throttle advance needs a fixed curve versus RPM selected from startup BAP values|| ----------- Project Topics - Discussions and Decisions Made **:case: Dana > Agreed, the later cast metal EEC case will be the goal. > Your note mentions a V?, I assume you are talking about the EEC-V? > To my mind the EEC-V can wait until there is no more work that can be done for EEC-IV. > One of the reasons for collecting a good number of e4 pinouts is to figure out the best candidates for MAP, RS232 and widebandO2 pins. > I was thinking that we'd use the old J3 hole for a 9 pin D sub to hook up the LCD display. > OK, I'll look into this and try and try to find manufacturing quantity data for various models. **:g3board: **:size: Dana > I got my GB3 in the mail today. It does not fit inside an e4 case. > Well, not easily anyway. If you were to mill the connector pocket out of the e4 casting and shave 0.080 off of one end of the board and shave about 0.200 off the other end, you _could_ get it to barely fit. > Does V2 work better? > We can use small sub boards, that may solve the immediate PCB software problem for now. > I'll copy your message to Marcell, and ask about small footprint Eagle. **:wbo2: Dana > The only thing I don't like about the Bowling design is the individual calibration of the sensors using poison gas. > The sensors have an individually tweaked calibration resistor in the connector. > I would like to see if there is any correlation between that specific resistance value and the calibration values that the poison gas testing provides. > I knew he was using various "calibration gases" (Duh! never thought about poison, explosive yes) and the more conventional WBo2 use a cal resistor, > Bet Bowling has processor control of cal necessities! **:maf: > Speaking of MAF, could AVR use this, or is it just a good datalog output? > Good question. The SVO does not have a MAF so it's not something that I have spent much time on. > I believe that a MAF simplifies the fueling calculations quite a bit. The SVO uses a VAM (vane air meter) which is a spring loaded hinged door in the air path. The door connects to a pot, giving a variable resistance output. I look forward to retiring them! GREAT NEWS Shane Moseley <s_moseley@bellsouth.net> (Shane is a frequent contributor of assembly code to other lists, created a unique and quite intuitive Windoze based MS tuning GUI.) Shane is working on 97 Mustang to convert to MS, and has seperated off the MAF and graphed it with MAP, short note is that it looks very like MAP curve, better dynamic range or resolution. Check his mail to MS group or I can forward if easier. > Looks like we might be able to use MAF and MAP, selectively, switching by maybe TPS, or ???. **:map: > I'm all for mounting AVR sensor external, maybe with a low impedance set of buffer amp drivers back to AVR. Don't forget, we could use the old J3 port hole for auxiliary IO. > Ditto! My idea was to have a small PC board for the MAP sensor. > I was thinking to put a good amount of filter capacitance right next to the sensor and use 2 twisted pairs of wire. Power & ground on one twisted pair and signal & ground on the other twisted pair. Figured we'd use a couple of the unused pins on the connector for the MAP sensor. Buffer amps are a good idea if there are noise pickup problems. I have had very good luck with twisted pairs. They're not as good as shielded cable, but very good for the price. I just put 2 wires in a cordless drill and make all I need in a couple of minutes. > One of my instrumentation lab tricks was like what you describe, then stuff it down an old style AM radio extender cable shielded shell, after removing the little copper wire, Same thing could be done with stranded ethernet cable for more pairs. **:software: **:code: **:editors: > I'm thinking of buying Ultaedit. **:assembler: **:compiler: **:PCB: I have done most of the capture of the GenBoard version 2, thinking that it would be the circuit to adapt to e4 duty. Of course, GB3 is a better choice with WBO2 and more drivers. Guess I'll have to start over. > Not necessarily, with the size, wbo2, and pcb software problem, > Is updating G2 with daughter boards a better choice? > Which layout package do you use? I have 2 layout packages vailable to me. I have an old Teradyne/ Sophia Systems package on my basement computer and I have Or-Cad on my upstairs computer and at work. I was thinking that it may be worth the expense to buy the Eagle software for the larger board size.. It would be a great time saver to start out with the complete GB3 schematic and parts footprints. > Keeping compatible with the other VEMS members is also a good idea. > That sure makes good sense, but don't these run about $.5-1K, what about the common interface conversion stuff that was in some of the packages. I can't afford that expense now or the foreseeable future. > Does Eagle have a cheap pin limited system who's output could be imported into a professional product by other group members? > I used Orcad, Tango and Mentor about 14 years ago, own a small Ivex winboard and winpcb today, last year, downloaded a bunch of free (all different) PCB software that was recommended by a board house, haven't loaded any yet, need to review that directory. > Isn't Eagle in 1K price range? **:extender: Dana > My plan right now is to first lay out a small board that can be fit inside an EEC-IV case ( how about 'e4' as shorthand for 'EEC-IV'? ) > This board will just have solder pads and straight traces to the solder tails of the e4 connector. > This board can be used for 2 things. > The first is that it would be easy to build an e4 extender cable so we would not have to contort ourselves while working on the system. > The other reason is to make an easy way to wire in an existing board such as the V3 GenBoard (GB3) for prototyping. > I had also thought about wiring in both the GB3 and the e4 module at (sort of)the same time. > The GB3 could be hooked up for fuel while that portion was being tuned/debugged the e4 could be left hooked up for ignition. >Datalogging could be done on both units with the same inputs. > Lots of test configurations come to mind. > Once the schematic is ironed out and we have GB3 spliced into a couple of different e4 vehicles, then we should layout a board to fit the cast e4 case. > Hopefully there is enough room on the board to hold the various interface circuits. > Ford puts the bypass caps on the underside of the board. no reason we can't do the same. For a low volume hand soldered unit, even IC's on both sides is possible. Jay > Extender is very desirable, include enough space to strain relief all wiring with tie wraps, broken wires are the last thing we need while debugging. (some are probably shielded) Dana > Exactly. > What about using the e4 adapter you've proposed, tied into a screw terminal jumper arrangement, (radio shack PCB output as one style) going to a couple of wrecking yard plug pigtails, this would let us selectively separate all control systems, fuel relay, etc. > Yes! You have the idea. Then if something blows up during road testing, just put the stock e4 back by itself to get home.
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